BoC vs Edge of Eternity

**BoC/EoE primary with a wulfenite gem aug, stat doll secondary, 65 War in era pop stats with 225% haste, all offensive aa's
**Using a 115 shadowknight with only cs/ca aa's, 0 defensive procs, 0 hate mods, and a single terror worth 18,587 threat - Death's Effigy and bard offtank(grouped with warrior for haste/atk) used at the start to ensure 0 threat

A standard run was pull General Reparm of the bard with a single terror on the sk then open gamparse and immediately turn auto attack on with the warrior. With each test round it would take about 3 minutes for my warrior to pull threat off the sk then reparm would 1-3 round him and I'd release right away to end the parse.

Raw parse data is here: https://github.com/nitroplr/BoCvsEoE

1H Parses
Brutish Blade of Balance (No Aug) - 4 (10 terror) runs 1403.5 second average to pull threat = 132.4 threat/sec
Darkblade of the Warlord (No Aug) - 2 (10 terror) runs 1464.5 second average to pull threat = 126.9 threat/sec
Fleshbiter (No Aug) - 4 (10 terror) runs 1512 second average to pull threat = 122.9 threat/sec
Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) - 3 (10 terror) runs 1655 second average to pull threat = 112.3 threat/sec
Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled (Wulfenite Gem) - 3 (10 terror) runs 1723.67 second average to pull threat = 107.8 threat/sec
Hategiver (Wulfenite Gem) - 5 (10 terror) runs 1773.2 second average to pull threat = 104.8 threat/sec
Obsidian Scimitar of War (Wulfenite Gem) - 3 (10 terror) runs 1947.7 second average to pull threat = 95.4 threat/sec
Bloodfrenzy (No Aug) - 1 (30 terror) run 5814 second average to pull threat = 95.9 threat/sec
Death's Head Mace (No Aug) - 1 (15 terror) run 2926 second average to pull threat = 95.3 threat/sec
BoC (Wulfenite Gem) - 3 (10 terror) runs 1964.333 second average to pull threat = 94.6 threat/sec
Blade of Strategy (Wulfenite Gem) - 2 (10 terror) runs 2120 second average to pull threat = 87.7 threat/sec
Edge of Eternity (No Aug) - 3 (10 terror) runs 2242.7 second average to pull threat = 82.9 threat/sec
BoC (No Aug) - 3 (10 terror) runs 2272.3 second average to pull threat = 81.8 threat/sec
Stone Etched Mallet (Wulfenite Gem) - 3 (10 terror) runs 2297 second average to pull threat = 80.9 threat/sec
Short Sword of the Ykesha (Wulfenite Gem) - 2 (10 terror) runs 2526 second average to pull threat = 73.6 threat/sec
Blade of Tactics (Wulfenite Gem) - 2 (10 terror) runs 2962 second average to pull threat = 62.8 threat/sec
Gnoll Hide Lariat (Wulfenite Gem) = 2 (10 terror) runs 3060 second average to pull threat = 60.7 threat/sec
Bard with a BoC (Wulfenite Gem) = 1 (10 terror) run 3621 second average to pull threat = 51.3 threat/sec

DW/2H Parses
Darkblade of the Warlord (No Aug) + Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) - 4 (10 terror) runs 986.75 second average to pull threat = 188.4 threat/sec
Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) + BoC (Wulfenite Segment) - 2 (20 terror) runs 2200.5 second average to pull threat = 168.9 threat/sec
Blade of War (Wulfenite Gem) - 2 (10 terror) runs 1226.5 second average to pull threat = 151.5 threat/sec
Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled (Wulfenite Gem) and Hategiver (Wulfenite Segment) - 1 (30 terror) run 3828s second average to pull threat = 145.67 threat/sec
Blade of Carnage (Wulfenite Gem) + Obsidian Scimitar of War (Wulfenite Segment) - 4 (10 terror) runs 1297.75 second average to pull threat = 143.2 threat/sec
Vanazir, Dreamer's Despair (No Aug) - 2 (10 terror) runs 1422 second average to pull threat = 130.7 threat/sec
Stone Etched War Sword (Wulfenite Gem) - 1 (20 terror) run 2893 second average to pull threat = 128.5 threat/sec
Jagged Blade of War (Wulfenite Gem) - 2 (10 terror) runs 1508 second average to pull threat = 123.3 threat/sec
Blade of Strategy (Wulfenite Gem) and Short Sword of the Ykesha (Wulfenite Segment) - 2 (10 terror) runs 1619 second average to pull threat = 114.8 threat/sec

Does a max hasted 17 delay weapon swing more often than a 19 delay max hasted weapon? Yes.
Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled (17 dly) : Average swings per second: 13446 / 5171 = 2.600
Obsidian Scimitar of War (19 dly) : Average swings / second = 13428 / 5843 = 2.298
2.298 / 2.6 = .8838 --- Expected: 17 / 19 = .8947

Thanks for this.

While I do enjoy actual parse data, you don't really have to for aggro. Aggro is basically an equation. If you build out a spreadsheet, you can just plug in item ratios + mod

The formulas posted
https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/o7ovya/hate/
and block 5-7 of
http://www.eqshadowknight.net/showthread.php?t=7590
were what prompted me to do actual testing. Basically those formulas say raw melee dmg is base dmg + bonus dmg per swing. This math basically shouts that melee dmg converts to threat really badly. In terms of threat the edge of eternity is probably more like 15th or 20th bis for warriors until they can put an aug in it. Obsidian scimitar of war probably crushes both it and boc for 3kp since its got a 25% proc mod with basically a flame lick proc and can take a stun aug.

Another interesting thing I learned doing this testing is that threat seems to fall off after about 10 or 11 minutes(from terrors for sure at least). My first tests I did with 5 terrors and after my warrior would get wrecked the boss would go to my bard for some reason. This is basically impossible since during my 1 terror runs the boss always goes back to the sk.

It took well over an hour for the 2 songs I was singing for the warrior to pull enough threat that 1 terror wouldn't pull off of him forcing me to finally fade the bard. But if I went afk or something and the boss went more than 10 or 11 minutes without getting hit with a terror, the bard took agro.

Although if you look at the numbers from the testing that went on here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/o7ovya/hate/
That base dmg + bonus dmg per swing equation doesn't actually hold up.

Edit: My bad, this formula actually holds up really well.

I remember once in Pofire doing some testing with a friend, and we found a massive in threat generation between a Blade of Carnage and Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled.

The Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled wiped the BoC all over the floor. It's proc rate gave it much more stable threat generation. The BoC also has a Velious ratio that doesn't hold up well at all in PoP.

I'm getting ready to do Bloodfrenzy, it's got a 55% mod on it whereas the blade of the exiled has 65%. Should be pretty indicative of how meaningful the proc mod is.

I had to re-run all of the parses because of something I noticed the test server doing. I used /resetaa to set my aa's to 0 and then just buy cs/ca but because my sk is heroic, every time I log in it ninja autogrants the heroic char aa's even though auto grant isn't ticked. Bold attacks was suspicious but I doubt it effects terrors since the numbers didn't change much. Edge of eternity went down a bit for an unknown reason. I did switch to using a cog marauder (lvl 80) in Fort Mech instead of General Reparm. I never saw the cog resist time snap (-100 check) once whereas Reparm resisted quite a bit. I've updated and organized the github repo a bit better and added parses for the Bloodfrenzy. Also, I changed from using 1 terror runs to 3 terror runs to reduce rez time. I'm going to experiment with something like a 15 or 20 terror run now that I know about how long these parses take. That weird thing it does where after my tank gets ganked after about 10 or 11 minutes when I was doing 5 terror runs is actually happening to all of my toons. While trying to manage the cog's rampage I noticed after the tank would die my toons wouldn't just lose agro, they get escaped and out of combat. If a character does not do anything hostile to the mob for about 10 minutes then my warrior gets deleted, they get forgotten from the hate list. I'm not sure if the threat falls off after a certain time, or if the threat becomes only associated with my warrior but a 15 or 20 terror run would tell the tale. Anyways, here are the updated summaries.

Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) - 7 (3 terror) runs 435.4 second average to pull threat = 128 threat/sec
BoC (Wulfenite Gem) - 5 (3 terror) runs 484 second average to pull threat = 115.2 threat/sec
BoC (No Aug) - 5 (3 terror) runs 578 second average to pull threat = 96.4 threat/sec
Edge of Eternity (No Aug) - 5 (3 terror) runs 578.8 second average to pull threat = 96.3 threat/sec

Need to plug your mouth big boi

Proc rate formula is pretty basic if I recall:

Base * ( Proc Rate Mod + Combat Effects + SpA200) = Procs per Minute. I may be missing one portion in the second portion of that equation. The base is about 2 with max dex stat.

BF = 2 * (1.55 + 0 + 0) = 3.1 PPM x 700 = 2170 / 60 = 36 hate per second on average with no hdex from procs.
BF = 2 * (1.55 + 1 + 0) = 5.1 PPM x 700 = 3570 / 60 = 59.5 hate per second with max combat effects from procs.

The next part all you need to do is parse your swings per minute with each wep and do

Swing Aggro = ((Base + Damage Bonus + Elemental Damage (if any)) * swings per minute) / 60 = swing hate per second.

Total aggro per second = swing aggro per second + proc aggro per second.

I took a closer look at that formula and the testing here and that formula actually does hold up really well for pure melee dmg:
https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/o7ovya/hate/



This formula and that math that resulted from it where BoC could be > EoE was actually what led me to do this parsing. My initial parsing was on the proc rates where I did two 40 min parses on my 65 bard fully hasted (not sure how his dex was) with the EoE. Primary came out to 2.5 procs per minute and offhand was 2.15. I was most concerned with the offhand numbers since that's usually where EoE is for a tank. The numbers basically say that a hategiver unaugged is going to generate 37.5 less threat per minute. I did my parsing with a BoC instead just because the math showed it should win easily once you put a stun aug in it.

Parsing offhand EoE procrates(no mod, same rate as BoC/Hategiver):
47.7 mins fully hasted - 3436 swings(I'm pretty sure I put a blunt or no weap in primary to get this numer) and 103 procs
Based on the formula eoe gains 5 threat over hategiver per swing and hategiver(or boc) gains 150 threat per proc over eoe.

72 swings per minute and 2.15 procs per minute

(72*5) 360 gained by the EoE per minute from the melee dmg bonus over Hategiver

(2.15 * 150) 322.5 gained by Hategiver over EoE per minute

Where the error comes in is a) trusting the melee formula(which looks spot on from the testing above) and b) trusting my calculation that the EoE timesnap proc is 150 dmg + 400 for the stun.

These formulas and numbers seem to have been proven true. The formula predicted that Hategiver and EoE would be near identical in threat, Hategiver is a BoC with 1 extra point of melee damage and my BoC unaugged pulls near identical threat to the EoE.

I was wrong when I said that the melee dmg + bonus dmg per swing formula didn't hold up. I don't remember why I thought it was off, but its pretty spot on.

It's been awhile since I've been super concerned with raw proc aggro, with the availability of so many aggro tools on live being the culprit, but I'm fairly certain debuff/stun aggro is mob's hp/15 with a max of 1200 on normal casts and 400 from procs. Aggro from damage is 1 to 1 of the base. If a spell is a base of 1,000 damage, the aggro will be 1,000 whether it's resisted, a crit, etc so the DD portion of EoE (150) is indeed 150 aggro. You'll need mobs of above 6,000 hp for stuns to be the full 400 aggro, which will always be the case for any relevant content by the time you get EoE.

Probably the last of the parsing I do until I get a dbow and the anger 2h off rz in tactics. I finished up the 1H runs in Fort Mech but moved to Sarith for 2H/DW parsing...turns out they don't do that weird thing where my sk's threat is only saved to the warrior and when the warrior gets deleted, sk threat gets wiped. This allowed me to do much longer runs and spend a lot more time afk and less time waiting for rez effects.

1H Parses

Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) - 7 (3 terror) runs 435.4 second average to pull threat = 128 threat/sec
BoC (Wulfenite Gem) - 5 (3 terror) runs 484 second average to pull threat = 115.2 threat/sec
Obsidian Scimitar of War (Wulfenite Gem) - 5 (3 terror) runs 508.2 second average to pull threat = 109.6 threat/sec
Stone Etched Mallet (Wulfenite Gem) - 5 (3 terror) runs 554.2 second average to pull threat = 100.5 threat/sec
BoC (No Aug) - 5 (3 terror) runs 578 second average to pull threat = 96.4 threat/sec
Edge of Eternity (No Aug) - 5 (3 terror) runs 578.8 second average to pull threat = 96.3 threat/sec

DW/2H Parses
Bloodfrenzy (Wulfenite Gem) + BoC (Wulfenite Segment) - 2 (20 terror) runs 2200.5 second average to pull threat = 168.9 threat/sec
Stone Etched War Sword (Wulfenite Gem) - 1 (20 terror) run 2893 second average to pull threat = 128.5 threat/sec

Not sure if I overlooked it or not but what was the dex on the warrior?

The warriors dex was anywhere from 303 to 311 depending on the weapon. And he has six heroic dex.

Thanks. That lets me know that my warrior will do less as he is at a lot lower dex.

I'm curious as to these tests? Warrior threat/aggro generation from weapons alone is horrendous pre-Gates lol.

In era as you progress through Time as a Warrior you're probably running Blade of Carnage + Bloodfrenzy (or Epic if you're unlucky), with your sights on a Dark Blade from RZ in Phase 5.

Arguably, Darkblade + Bloodfrenzy is your PoP BiS for Warriors in terms of aggro generation and mitigation stats. I don't believe there's ever a situation where you'd want an EoE in your offhand if you have the DB as your primary. I mean, unless you'll never see Phase 5 and your guild doesn't go back to kill Vyzh`dra the Cursed? That said, going back to kill Vyzh'dra would be easy if your guild is able to kill Saryrn (EoE dropper) in Phase 4.

Also, at this stage of the game your initial aggro generation as a Warrior won't come from weapons. It'll be from a Knight or Ranger for the initial boost as they pull said boss towards you.

This isn't really arguable. EoE is trash.

Oh, no doubt, but people still crunch the EoE numbers.