Between Bard and Enchanter, which synergizes best with SK + MAG?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Skewert, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Skewert Lorekeeper

    I'm currently boxing a lvl 103 SK and a lvl 103 MAG on a very low population server (not FV). I want to add either a Bard or an Enchanter (boxed) to add real CC and to further increase DPS. When considering the 100+ game, and particularly 105-110, between a Bard and an Enchanter, which of those two classes' abilities would synergize best with a SK + MAG duo? Bard is best for melee groups, I hear, and Enchanter for casters; I have a mix of both. I'd go with dps melee mercs with Bard, or dps caster mercs with Enchanter. Enchanter CC is superior and would be much easier to handle, but Bard pulling is superior. How hard is it to CC with a Bard, particularly with more than one mob that needs mez, AND keep up the melody/twisting of the group buffs/songs - from a boxing perspective? I'm concerned about CC situations, but I'm also under the impression that the vast majority of my play time won't need CC, so max DPS is probably more important. I'm thinking that the Enchanter might be better in this group makeup for both (better/easier boxed CC and more direct DPS and adps).

    The Enchanter synergy AA seems to blend really well with the Mage's casting abilities, and vice versa. The Bard's synergy seems pretty good as well, but to trigger it, you have to spend quite a bit of mana on those two "Insult" spells, and I'm not sure how sustainable that would be over non-stop pulls.

    So many things to consider with this choice, and I want to make sure I haven't overlooked anything before making it. Thanks in advance.
  2. Monkman Augur

    Your SK is the CC, honestly if you’re mezzing mobs at 110 with a SK in the group you’re doing it wrong.

    SK is your puller too, don’t worry about single pulls, that just slows the exp down.

    I’d stack another mage (that double coth can be nice for quests in large zones)
    Dreadmore likes this.
  3. Axxius Augur

    ENC. Stronger CC, real slow, stronger caster ADPS, stronger own DPS, provides the buffs you all need. Bard is only better for SK's DPS but the overall benefit of ENC for this setup is much better.
    Skewert likes this.
  4. Skewert Lorekeeper

    I'm on a very low-population server. Level-current raid gear is not going to be attainable by anyone - I don't think there's a single guild on this server that raids max level content, or even lvl 105 stuff for that matter. Most of the group content is going to be me on my own most of the time as well. Right now my Mage air pet (with EM18) tanks much much better than my SK (once SK gets to 105 and can use Amorphous Cohort stuff, I'm hopeful that'll help balance things out a bit). I've learned just how important gear is to a tanking class through this experience.
  5. enclee Augur

    For your situation I would do bard and focus on the SK. It’ll be more hands off, and with each boxed character you want to keep things simple.
    Bamboompow likes this.
  6. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    I'd agree with Enclee. A boxed bard will probably contribute more than a boxed enchanter. They can provide decent autoattack DPS (just make sure to turn on auto-kick) while running a melody and taking basically no attention.
  7. Corak Elder

    I have tried both Enc and Bard in my three box, and I find mezzing on the Bard takes way too much attention. There are an awful lot of situations three boxing where mezzing saves the day, especially if you do not have a raid geared tank. I usually feel like survival skills take a higher priority than optimal buffing, the way I end up boxing.
    Tarvas likes this.
  8. Bamboompow Augur

    Always been a firm believer that a bard makes EVERYTHING better.
  9. Aelen Augur

    Both are good as the trio addition here. Neither is exactly wrong.

    Bard is easier to box, so the less total potential you feel you can get out of a character, the more it favors /melody afk bard.

    Bard CC is worse, but you get a significant window of set it and forget it on a small number of mezzes if you set up your melody well.

    Resists are a more significant problem for bard AE CC, but you have a Mage for AE malo to cover that.

    Deftdance gives you another pickup-cooldown for intentionally pulling and mobbing up a pile to be Malo'd and then mezzed. Along with the SK's Deflection and Shield Flash cooldowns.

    Bards have a few Divine Aura options for those types of shenanigans, but more stuff lands through DA these days.

    Bard has a single target cure for when that mechanic shows up now and then.

    Bard speed is nice to zoom off the mage somewhere to CotH.

    Bard's have decent damage out of low APM(Actions per Minute) with the bellows and autoattack.

    Bards have a so-so PBAE slow and a good AE shout nuke to aid in tanking and killing piles of weak mobs. Some of the songs are good for the multi-target damage of the SK and Mage.

    Bard aura is nice for the Magician swarm pets on single target stuff, and bard songs are great for the SK's damage output.

    Bottom line for bard is it's probably more baseline strength. Adds more to indiscriminate wrecking of trash for XP.

    Enchanter has better debuffs by far, which makes the SK and merc's work a lot easier

    Enchanter has better burst aDPS assistance, and will help in disappearing a target more immediately every now and then.

    Enc aDPS is generally nice for the Mage, and fairly nice on the SK.

    Enchanter CC is a lot better, a lot faster, a lot more flexible, a lot more reliable, and a lot more sustainable. Though there are no true auto-manage options in the Enc kit(Mez-skin kinda sorta), whereas the bard has a few, for a single or small group.

    Enc has better use of a charm pet if you can spare enough attention for that while boxing, and has a fixed 6 minute charm every 30 minutes to give an easy window of charm pet dps or tanking.

    Enc runes, Glyph spray and whatnot are one of the few mechanisms in the game that actually help mitigate being burst from full to empty, as the extra rune health sits on top of your regular health, and give you a pseudo-heal option by preventing damage from landing.

    Enc has a much stronger, but target limited AE slow for AE stuff. Less AE damage assistance than the bard, especially if you can't propagate DoTs to all the targets while boxing.

    Bottom line for the Enc is it's probably better windowed strength, and will let you stretch the limits of what humps you can worm or slug your way over, particularly if most of your gear will be self farmed. But will probably take a bit more attention/APM.
    Skewert likes this.
  10. Skewert Lorekeeper

    Thank you so much for that extremely thorough and well thought-out reply! Very insightful.
  11. Bamboompow Augur

    My snark sense is tingling.

    Look. This poster that you are quoting is right. There is no "wrong" or "right" answer here.
    It depends on what works for you ultimately and where you want to focus your attention. Mages can be easily socialed/multi-binded and just tab over button mash dps. A group tank is going to require attention. Especially a knight. If there is not a bunch of button mashing going on with a group knight, you might as well let the mage pet tank. Especially with merc healers.

    Focus on the SK and let the bard be an enhancement you don't need to pay much attention to BUT still can provide some Swiss army knife utility in a clutch. Bards are generalists. Enchanters are specialists. Specialists require more focus and knowledge.

    Just keep in mind you have this open on the Docket of the Court of Public Opinion, so you might not get what you want to hear, especially if this thread is just to provide affirmation to a decision you have already made.
  12. Skewert Lorekeeper

    Get it recalibrated because there was zero snark in what I said! No, I thought it was incredibly helpful and he broke things down very well.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    Either one will be great. For me it'd be hard to give up the bard's track, but the enchanter's ADPS for your mage's DPS is susbstantial.
  14. Bamboompow Augur

    You are right. I got confused on the origin of your quote tbh.
  15. code-zero Augur

    Bard selo for pulling makes your puller very nearly untouchable during the pull.
  16. Ninelder Augur

    You are two days to late to get the great Bard/Beastlord/Druid equalizer. But it will come again in 11months time. When Darkened Seb reopens next year go get http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=128591 Its huge for all the mana pain classes. While mudflation will lower its utility over time; it will do so at a slower rate for bards.[/quote]

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