Best Non-Monk/Non-Chanter TLP DPS Class?

Just curious on what everyone's opinions are for the best dps classes on TLPs after Monks or Chanters? What are the next ones in line in the dps hierarchy? Is there any other classes that you think have a noticeably higher Skillcap potential than others?

In classic and kunark in the grouping game it is probably necro. Undead charm pets are fairly common and with them you rival chanters and crush monks. It is a high skill cap class in group because charming is generally one of the more engaging activities and even without charm you have a ton of skills.

Necro, Mage, Wizard, Druid,

Necros are wind up DPS, Mage's, Wizard's and to a certain extent, druid are burst so for group composition you want as many of your DPS spots to be burst as possible.

In terms of grouping early on, Mage blows every other class out of the water. The damage shield alone is going to account for 20%-30% of the group's overall DPS output until people get fully geared. When you factor in the pet and nukes, the short term output is just superior to every other class. Unfortunately, you're useless on raids early on because everything is immune to fire and motm makes your pet worthless.

Depends if you mean classic, pre-PoP or post-PoP

DPS hierarchy shifts considerably as the game moves through expansions.

Mages Level 1-30 are just about untouchable but drop off after that
Necromancers are always good
Wizards are either great or suck
Rogues are stronger on TLP than they were on classic originally but will feel weak compared to other classes to begin with due to benefitting the least from innate damage AA, they start closing the gap from PoP onwards.
Rangers are pretty viable tanks in classic and in Luclin and PoP are strong dps but this is a class that is easy to play but hard to get the most out of, most Rangers are actually pretty terrible in my experience but there are just about enough good ones to not write the class off.

Raids or grouping?

Raids up until maybe GoD it's hands down Wizards.

Grouping it'll probably be a necro for the same reason enchanters are really good: Charm.

Outside of that it shifts around a lot depending which era you're in. PoP and beyond I'd say rogue or Zerker, although I'm not entirely sure how Zerkers do OoW and beyond given they keep eating nerfs from Live.

From my experience of Phinigel TLP Rogues & Zerkers are fairly evenly matched from GoD all the way to CoV in equivalent gear, AA & with an equivalently skilled/knowledgeable player, the Rogue will only fall behind significantly if they can't reliably get the rear arc of the target.

This is not even remotely accurate.

Source: I spent all of last year playing on P99 Green where Rogues were top tier DPS all through classic, and I mained a Rogue 20 years ago. I find it surreal that someone would actually say this. Rogues DPS was so good 20 years ago that they had to implement the evasion ability because it was otherwise impossible to pull aggro off of one.

Rogue was top group DPS normally in kunark-velious. That's when I mained one. Once you had epic, you were unstoppable. My DPS was incredible in groups even before getting my epic. with a 9/19 backstabber and an fbss. Rogue and wizard were needed for raids to kill mobs faster. Now Rogues are kind of a joke. Mage pets got a super boost at some point, and monks got improved hth tables. Spells got a revamp to do more damage. What did rogues get again? Oh, some melee AA that all melees get.

100% agree. Just thought it was wild that he implied Rogues are better now than they were in classic. In true classic you pretty much had to have rogues for raids because of how much mana-less damage they do. Now Rogues aren't even viable for the first 6 expansions.

A simple parse would show you classic rogues are way inferior to their modern counterpart. The fact there is a new line of AAs that give an innate boost to baseline dps is enough to prove that rogues are stronger now than they were.

Rogues get the new AA in classic. Your lack of knowledge about this game is alarming.

The same AA everyone gets...?

Absolute strength Rogues are much better off now than Classic. Everyone is, though.

Relative strength? And the fact that we only consider the level grind for comparing Rogues against Mages. They're not quite as good. Even Monks suck to level compared to a Mage group.

When a DPS class goes from being the top DPS to not even in the top 10, or what most people would consider viable.. it's hard to argue that they are in a better state now than they were in classic. Like could a Rogue join a group and get experience or loot? Of course.

But why would most groups or raids invite a Rogue...? Especially in a version of the game where all items are trade-able. You no longer need to bring a Rogue along to let him get welfare loot when you can just bank the items yourself for future use or profit? At least when items are no drop, a guild may let a Rogue in to loot some items -- I don't see that being nearly as common on Free Trade servers.

Rangers are consistently solid from classic to TSS. quite capable of tanking any group content up to TSS and your dps is always at least "good' compared to everyone else.

Whats your point? Do rogues now have an innate AA that increases dps? Yes. Did they have it in classic? No. Therefore, they are more dps now than they were. What you are trying to argue is a completely different topic. That topic is how are modern rogues compared to modern everyone else. But that's not the original statement.

Show me the parses then, fam. Let's see your source.

Really an impossible question to answer because there's too many variables. I'm also going to assume your "non-chanter" comment to really mean "non-charm". But...

Generally speaking, in the GROUP GAME, I'd order the next-best DPS classes as:

1. Mage - Damage shield + pet makes them solid. Nukes are awesome too. Needs clarity to be really great. DS effectiveness tapers off >L40.
2. Necro - Early on, not so much, but once they get Lich and E-bolt, the DPS is on. Best if you fight multiple mobs in camp at the same time.
3. Rogue - Rogues get a lot of hate, but come Kunark and especially Velious, they can bring the deeps. Usually can compete near monks.
4. Ranger - Pretty weak in classic like Rogues, but when you get a Woodsman Staff + Call of Flame you can rock it. Come Luclin, they jump to the #2 spot just behind charm pets.
5. Wizard - Assuming a few things, like good tank aggro, mana regen buffs, and some basic EQ competence, wizards can lay down some waste. Would probably move them up to spot #3 for a "good" wizard that uses mana-efficient spells instead of just lobbing killshots. Also, come Luclin, they skyrocket with their AAs and horses.
6. Shaman - Overlooked DPS class - between Canni and E-bolt, they can lay down some DPS if needed. Can definitely get near the top parse when poison dots land on raid mobs.
7. Everyone else - At this point, you have your knights, warriors, and other casters. Any of them can do some decent DPS, but are usually relegated to other roles.

In the RAID GAME, I would rank them:

1. Wizard - Some fights they're worthless, but come Kunark and especially Luclin you can really lay down waste. You should be topping almost all parses in Luclin and are better than monks.
2. Ranger - Pretty much dogpoop until Luclin, but then they turn into literal Gods. You want lots of them on your raids, especially when you go back to ToV and fight Lady N.
3. Necro - Similar to wizards, when their spells land, they are in the running for top-5 on parse every time. Get GINA to help time your DOT timers.
4. Rogue - Again, come Velious, you're competing with monks...this continues into Luclin, although you will get overshadowed by the (3) classes above.
5. Everyone else - Its rare that any class not named Wizard/Ranger/Necro/Monk/Rogue parses in the top-10 on a raid mob anywhere from classic-PoP. There are specific mobs that specific classes not listed there can do well on, but usually your top-10 or top-20 on any given parse are going to be smattered with those classes (until Zerkers). Also, Warriors can parse decently high too given that Damage_shield Damage counts towards their DPS.

I disagree with this concerning raids, but it does require a ranger to forgo dual wielding and use a 2hander, specifically https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5916 , the best ranger usable velious 2hander. do this and cast firestrike/dustdevil between swings as best you can and pending on mob resist and you can absolutely compete with monks on most fights.

you might not beat them often, but rangers are far from dog poop dps in velious if they try