Best Group-Friendly Single-Box Class for TLP?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Egil, Mar 27, 2024.

  1. Xhieron Elder

    I get it. Personally, it's not so much about splitting (although that's nice), but there are a few things at play arising out of convention:

    First, the monk can flop in camp and immediately pass the mob to the tank, meaning he doesn't have to wait a few seconds before he can go pull the next one if the tank doesn't have good snap aggro. Especially early in a server's life, aggro can sometimes be more of a problem than you might think. Anybody can pull, but monks have unmatched aggro shedding, and in an efficient group the next mob needs to be incoming before the one in camp is 75 health.

    Secondly, the monk can flop at spawn rather than get overwhelmed and die if things go **** up. This isn't a matter of splitting so much as it is keeping things from grinding to a halt while the group hunts for a rezz or the puller runs back from across the continent. This is partly a consequence of where people camp in a TLP: they camp in LGuk, where every mob you want to hunt will root the puller on contact.

    Finally and most importantly, monks have been pulling by community convention for decades now, for better or worse. That means people who want to or are willing to pull are more likely to play monks, and non-monks are more likely to balk at pulling, especially if they rightly fear they will get rooted and murdered by a half-dozen frogs before they even get back to camp.

    And necros want to keep their pets alive, but otherwise they're just as good as the monk pullers. If you have a spare SK, you can make him pull too. I strongly agree with the sentiment that anyone can pull. Monks just have one really good additional tool for it, and a lot of folks expect when they choose monk that they're signing up to pull--sometimes they chose monk specifically for that reason. [And the same is true for many bards even though they don't get fade for months after TLP launch.] If you're a monk who doesn't want to pull, people will assume you're less competent than other monks on the server or at least less willing to pull your weight. Maybe that's wrong of them, but you only have to sit idle for a few minutes in a group with two monks while your dead cleric puller runs back from his bind before you start to understand the sentiment.
    KobalWR and natedogg like this.
  2. natedogg Journeyman

    Couldn't agree more.
  3. Kahna Augur


    I would agree with much of what you said if it was even possible to pull 6 frogs in Guk on a TLP. On a new TLP you can walk from the entrance of LGuk to Lord without seeing a single mob up, and as soon as one does spawn it is killed.

    The level of aggro generated by throw stone (or a level 1 nuke from any caster) is so miniscule a single autoattack swing will get aggro off the puller.

    You are correct in that it is tradition. That is the only reason why monks still get forced into pulling. It is a tradition that should change. I don't play monks, I think they are boring compared to a class with more tools, but if one is in my group I don't want it pulling. As for your example of two monks sitting in camp while the cleric pulled. I am betting there are 3 other classes in that group that would have been a better pulling choice than the cleric. Like, literally any of the other classes (And that isn't because clerics can't be perfectly wonderful pullers, but because if you are in a pug leaving the cleric in camp in the event of a death is the best bet. Doesn't mean the two monks were the best pulling choice.)
  4. Xhieron Elder

    Probably, but that's not really the point. Make the tank pull, make the druid pull, make the wizard pull--it doesn't really matter, because all of them get squished when one of the monks can just flop on the way back to camp, and when they do everybody resents the monks, both of whom were asked and made some excuse, just like everybody else in the party. In a lot of groups the person who ends up pulling is just whoever gets browbeaten into it because they're not willing to argue for ten minutes while no XP is coming in. That's a social problem, and for years the community has addressed it by just assigning the puller role to certain classes--monks among them.

    Is it ideal? Probably not, but 90% of the way things are done on TLPs is because it's tradition, and these traditions didn't come about by accident. Hell, tradition is why these servers exist in the first place. Everybody who's ever played EQ understands that if you play a monk, you may be called upon to pull, and you need to be okay with that. The monk who digs in his heels and adamantly refuses to pull is like the enchanter who doesn't charm because he might need to walk his dog--like, sure, you might have a legitimate excuse or even a compelling argument why you shouldn't have to, but you knew when you rolled an enchanter that people would expect you to maintain a charm pet. Just like shaman who don't dance to keep their buffs up, SKs who don't tank, druids who don't charm animals--the community's expectations about what you're going to do in the group is why they invited you. If you're not willing to meet those expectations despite having good tools for it, you should get comfortable with groups not inviting you in the future.

    Are monks the best pullers? It depends, but one thing that's for sure is that 10 times out of 10, a group will prefer a monk who's willing to pull over a monk who's not.
  5. Zansobar Augur

    I will take another charm pet over a monk or tank any day.
  6. Kahna Augur

    And they would be wrong.

    Things change, we should change with the times.
  7. Magpie New Member

    Paladins are great as your main character. They are (in my opinion) the best group tank from Classic through Kunark, and on raids tend to have limited roles, so you're not overwhelmed or burned out. Also, by the time Velious rolls around, Paladin is one of the least-played classes, so you have less competition for gear.

    As a paladin in a group, you can: Go out and pull mobs via pacify, bring them back to camp and root any adds, stun lock casters, get pretty much snap aggro, self-heal when the healer is busy, LoH in emergencies, and tank with plate armor.
  8. Risiko Augur

    You forgot hit things as if you are swinging a butter knife.
  9. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Pure melee are a lost cause. Enchanter is the most powerful class in TLP up to Luclin. Choose any other class at your peril.
  10. ECrack Augur


    I'm going to main a bard with an enchanter box. In group settings I plan to melody the ol' bard in the corner while I pull/tank/dps/cc on the enchanter. Idgaf if its a group of monks, rogues, rangers, w/e. I'll have either a cleric or two of the other priests in any combination, shm/shm, shm/dru dru/dru.

    Obviously, there's some meta options but idgaf. I'll tank, I'll pull, I'll DPS, I'll CC. All with bard speed, mana song, MR and haste running.

    You're welcome four random pugs or guildies whoever you end up being. ;)
    code-zero likes this.
  11. fransisco Augur

    Rogue! Cause then you get all the rots!
  12. Zansobar Augur

    Hopefully the new server ruleset will change that.
    fransisco likes this.
  13. superman Augur

    I'll sign up , this guy gets it.
    code-zero likes this.
  14. Magpie New Member

    That's alright, damage isn't your role as a paladin (in my opinion) and you have a group for that when you're tanking. Your mana should be going towards threat-generation. Stuns, heals and so on. :)