That's all stuff they removed because people complained. They gave out unique class abilities to everyone because people complained they couldn't do what x class could. They dumbed down NPCs because people complained it was too hard. They decreased density and aggro range because people complained. Even with all this, we have people complaining about see-invis mobs, having to travel through more than two zones, needing bigger fellowships so they can have an easier time looting with their alts, etc. What's making this game overly simple and boring is the constant appeasing of the complainers.
Well all I know is once a well played Bard was thing of beauty to behold. It was a challenge to play well and I enjoyed the heck out of it, didnt need a parse to tell that. Raids were boring but that was just a couple of nights a week, Grouping was ok to fine, but soloing oh man was it a blast. Never will get that back, any of it. RIP
Fingers in every pie is a neat place to be. With Lure of the Siren's Song and Dissonant Chord nerfed, though, the warrior bit is super sketch atm
Maybe look at your guild. We have plenty of bards for main raids. Our casual raids usually have plenty to an overabundance of bards as well.
Excellent question. I'll give a "filthy casual" response. A bard is easy to box and difficult to play. The Bard can just play a melee or caster melody and do nothing else and be a good addition to a box group. However, to play a bard well in a group setting requires skill in a number of areas. Pulling with a bard might be cake in a DH HA, but going into a room full of mobs and leaving with the one named, now that takes some understanding of the intricacies of direct and assist aggro as well as how the Bard's various songs and AAs work together. Oh, and how to use other lines when things go bump in the night (and mez is only one of those lines). Gone are the days when the Bard used to pull a zone and chant/kite down the mobs. So many players are filled with DPS envy and the Bard neither has DPS or the ability to tank for very long, even with plate armor. The lack of direct DPS is one reason there are not many Bards out there for others to group with. Also, I have found that at times, it is difficult to get a group with the Bard, but easier with the monk. I'd say that there is an ignorance bias involved that somewhat reduces the overall demand for a Bard in groups. In fact, I had to create a third all-access account so that I would be able to play him as much as I wanted to. I thoroughly enjoy playing my Bard having started him in 2000. The strength of his abilities have changed over the past decade and one-half, sometimes he gets broken and it takes awhile to "fix" his songs, and sometimes his strongest attribute gets the nerf gun, but overall, the challenge to play him well is always there. If one is looking for positive reinforcement from others, that person will have to focus on the people who truly understand what a Bard brings to the group or raid. There may be no other class where the results are so desired, look so easy to the uninitiated, but take so much understanding of the class to achieve. All of the above is a very long-winded answer to your excellent question.
This just about sums up how being a bard is, in group gear you can't even molo TBM trash without full burns maybe same kinda goes for a raid geared bard, they are extremely group dependent (much like a healer). And in this day and age it's virtually impossible to get a group to accomplish progression once other people have already finished it and maybe even 5 times unless you have a Clique or solid group of friends that plays the same times as you, or you box. Maybe it's time to allow 2-3 mercs out per person in EQ because everyone is antisocial and resorts to boxing these days because there's a clear skill gap between good longtime players and PUG randoms that don't want to improve even though they need to improve if they want to progress in this game.....
Thank you, I am not used to such intelligent and thoughtful replies. It was always a balancing act with a bard, remember when the songs stopped working at all for a while? So far back Who in their right mind would pick up a class after seeing that? Yeah well never said I was sane but there is the point where it becomes too much. Got one sitting in full HoT gear that hasn't been played much since so that's how long the class has been completely broken in my view. Of course boxing anything by necessity means not playing them well. Any way I miss those days and I am sure I'm not alone.
*sighs* How about just being unique? The hybrid classification does not hold up with bards, never did.
i Seems the dev team made that distinction by lumping us in with hybrid classes im just trying to get a understanding of what they see us as a hybrid of ? If we have a better understanding of what classes they see us as a combination of then we can better request what areas of our "parent" classes need tweeking...
There are five sub categories. Tanks, Melee, Hybrid, Healers, Casters. I am thinking if the developers had to place bards in one category of those five, it would be either melee or hybrid. Since there were already three pure melee (zerker, rogue, monk) and only two hybrid (beastlord, ranger) the devs decided to balance it out and put three classes in each of those two sub sections. They are not going to have a sixth sub forum and call it Bard and have that class be the only one with its own forum. So they had to lump them in somewhere. Since bards can do much more than just "melee" I would guess that is why they are under hybrid.
I actually still use the piper line.. one is a clicky, and other is rk3 of plague, fatesong is good in wiz groups, crescendo is still good even with dicho, but ya rest i don't even touch. i like the idea of combining some of our songs though, like ice and fire nuke should be 1 song imo just like the dot song, and combining the 2 auras would be nice, or hell give us a second aura slot like they did with chanters. and if they would combine some songs together, we could sing more... and adps more then 1 type of class... like arcane / song of suffering together would open a slot for the nuke song so BLs can get their full adps line up without hindering pure melee classes
Good post and I agree with you, but I want to point out that Fatesong unfortunately doesn't work on BL nukes. The BL cold nukes are now 'combo' spells that trigger other spells; these triggered spells have 0 mana cost and are excluded from Fatesong. It doesn't help that they're combined with Poison and Disease nukes which we also can't focus. The BST spells I tested for this effect are: Frozen Miasma Kromtus Roar Kirchen's Chill Visoracius' Maelstrom If there are other cold nukes BST use, they might work.
Since I've known Dram...long time, I realized back then Bards needed updates! I just always felt they should be able to do a little bit more dps tbh!
Bards in a group/raid = freaking fantastic Bards solo/molo = gigantic waste of time That fade invis nerf sucked a lot of fun out
i have been mentored by one of the best bards in the game (in my opinion) and have read his guides and conversations and have yet to know anyone that is more knowledgeable about bards and really all classes and general EQ mechanics. just so everyone knows to be really in the know about how everything works in EQ you damn near need a PHD.. you have to know all the various stacking of abilities/buffs and simply can not go off of what the ability description says. Not only for your class but all the other classes in the group. its freaking crazy. To listen to someone talk about all the intricacies of maxing output from a full raid perspective is both nerdy as hell and very impressive. raid situations i dont believe bards are ever in a wizard group unless there is no ench. raid wiz group is DRU/ENC and wizards. Mag group is the same. Necro group will normally always have a bard so they will be at 100% crit rate all the time. Melee DPS groups will always have a bard/shm. Tank group will have a bard if all melee and necro groups have a bard. conventional wisdom would say why they hell not? well ench provide more ADPS to wizards and mages and wizards rarely go OOM so the use of Dicho doesnt matter. Fatsong and other +Damage to spell/dots are what i call song #3 or #4 songs. song #1 and aria #2 is warmarch in just about all situations. after that you have differences in group type. literally the only 2 songs that matter the most are #1 and #2. other songs add much lower to the ADPS and to go past #4 trying to squeak in another song is pointless. you may gain 0.1% edge but risk even a tick of song #1 and #2 is bad. Dots.. no bard should be using the dots complete waste of time in group and raid game. Nukes.. topic of much frustration due to the stupid unneeded push. you can use 2 nukes and 2 ADPS songs on very very quick fights to peak your personal DPS. but general that fight should be one that pins the mob were push will not be an issue. else your going to piss off the Raid leader with all the push. Dicho.. Until its nerfed/fixed there is absolutely no need to have Silisia's memed. Simply wasting time casting it. Horthin's Psalm.. Not really sure if this one is going to be any good with the new direction they are taking with dots. as it stands already this song is a very minimum gain for necro group. as mentioned before the main point of a bard being in necro group is to provide 100% crit rate all the time.
Bards are more powerful than almost any other class if you take into account each attribute they can provide individually, unfortunately it's not fun. Even in group content, if you really maximize your play (pull, cc, buffs, even tanking/positioning and dpsing) you will still be done with TBM in a few weeks as a casual player. In raids they are absolutely boring, but some people prefer that. Just the other day some one mentioned there is too much faceroll and key interaction required on their class to socialize while they play, well....problem solved, type /melody make a /stopcast button, hit your epic when the shaman hit's theirs and boom, you win in any guild. I could probably do that with 10 chat boxes open.
