Agnarr - to Rogue or Not?

Yea, that's why I'm still a Rogue. I was a Monk for 10 years...that's enough with the pulling for me.

So much Rogue loot rotting...

Ah I see what you did there. Yup Rogues suck carry on, nothing to see here.

Brilliant!

Let's see, there's a Rog-only dagger in PoP, just like every class has a class item. Leather has less competition for armor archetypes by far (Shm, tons of Rng, and Ber's soon), and melee item competition is simply insane. So sure, 100% Brilliant!

As said before, if you really want to play a Rogue for some reason, go for it. It can be fun - no doubt. If you're trying to make an easy gear, or min/max, or utility, or dps, or raid contribution argument, there's other classes that are better in every category, including several who are better in multiple categories.

Honestly, there is no reason not to play a rogue with 12 week unlocks. I would like to say, however, that making a rogue at startup without any twink gear is 7arded. I am pretty sure you will get out DPS'd by pretty much ever DPS class in the game until you get your epic and/or raid geared.

Narrow it down as such: do you want to melee dps in groups or pull ? I loved my Monk on Phinigel, they are godly (fists) untill PoP hits, but in groups you'll be pulling non-stop.

The class choice on this brand new server is somewhat different than joining a server that is a couple of months old roaming the newbie grounds with twink gear. So it all depends what your goal is, if it's about the journey and server rush at most than adapt your class choice.

If you are are only wanting top DPS then monks are the way to go. Rogues get better with each xpac, there is so much hate on rogues that it steers players away from the class. I love the class, and like playing them, especially in LDoN. If you are in a guild, it is easier to get a group as a rogue for sure. Since Agnarr is PoP/LDoN locked players will be playing more than one class, play them both heh.

If the group doesn't care about adds and can just burn them down, to me it makes more sense for the weaker dps class (rogue) to pull, and let the godly fist dps class just dps. At least for the first little while until Rogue dps catches up.

Clearly for buggy zones, or raids, the monk is key here. But for most dps groups? I've never understood the "monk must pull" mentality if you're mezzing or simply not caring about adds.
Which 90% of Phinny groups seemed to be.
This is a great chance for a Rogue to step up and make a name for themself.

Play the rogue if that's what you want. i don't like all these monk > rogue suggestions, I played both classes long time and think looking at the DPS only is not a clever approach.

As monk you may have the better DPS and solo survivability, but people will see you mainly as puller. If you don't like constantly running around to pull mobs, don't play monk for group play in PUGs.

The rogue is a DPS and scout class, nobody expects much more from you. While you may not parse as much as the monk could (if he wouldn't run around pulling..), you can just focus on your job. Sneak and hide are also great skills to see all the old places of Norrath again. Additionally you will compete with less others for the rogue gear.

And what everybody saying rogues are useless seem to forget, in the first six month of Agnarr there will be so many groups and players around that every class will find groups easily. Probably even at any level. So don't worry, your Rogue will do fine if you enjoy playing one.

I would say it just depends what you do. Pulling outdoor to just grind XP, potentially everybody can pull fine. Even more so if you have CC or a well played group.

But I guess it is way easier with a monk in most dungeons like Runnyeye, Soluseks Eye, the Warrens etc.

The solution, form your own groups.

"It's fine for a class to be sub-par at its only designed purpose because there will be enough groups that they will carry you through the levels."

I'm trying to look at rogues beyond a DPS perspective but every time nothing comes up and I just keep staring into thin air.

I think most of the people who don't care probably don't care about performance anyway. I wonder -- as long as the group balances out with some casters -- if grouping a rogue would make a difference for most of these groups anyway, because I feel like they will be in the most crowded population of exp groups, locking down so few spawns in crowded zones that the lack of DPS won't matter.

Just my 2cp. I played a rogue in classic on Phinny and had a blast. Spent lots of time in plane of hate, one day pulling, other day scouting here and there undetected. It was awesome. Was active on guild raids and on parses always near top dps (always top 10 at least). One time a wizard was higher dps, other time a monk was higher dps .. but who cares? I had lots of fun doing some rogue quests like burning rapier etc. Never regretted maining a rogue on Phinny.

TL DR: If rogue peeks your interest. Play it and don't look back. Other option is to listen to all min/max talk and ruin the fun out of whichever class you are going to play. In the end there's always going to be a class that is better than you on some point or other.

people are misconstruing "hate" when its simply facts.

rogues are in a real bad spot in classic. its not just you do less dps than the other dps classes, you quite literally are some of the lowest dps in the game at that point. tanks out dps you. druids out dps you. shamans out dps you. i would venture paladins out dps you in lower guk at least, and quite possibly in general. i wouldnt be shocked if a cleric that was focusing on dps was able to outdps a rogue.

its the itemization of classic. there are just no good group daggers around to make you competitive. meanwhile the other melee classes get bals, babs, mudman enforcer, smoldering brand. and all casters benefit from spells that are way more mana efficient than they were in the original timeframe.

once you stumble into a serpent's tooth from yael, you become good. until that point, rogues just have it rough.

For many playing EverQuest is still about having fun with others to beat a certain challenge or level their char. Not everybody needs maximum efficiency to to enjoy there time. And that's not matter of casual versus lewt gamer. Agnarr is content locked, so racing to max level is secondary in my eyes.

I guess it is okay to warn people that rogues are not the top DPS at launch than someone may expect. But just stop to tell people they will suck or ignored by others because of choosing rogue as their class.
There as viable as all the other classes to enjoy playing.

Rogues are awesome. Once kunark drops and u get epic+double bs you will start feeling the power. Had one in guild show up all the time on parses and I think Vulak he was #1 all the time once he looted the dagger off him ). If I wanted to main a rogue I'd start by making a mage and stacking plat to twink him out when kunark drops 3 months later.

I'd take a well played rogue over an crappy played any other DPS any day. (read: likely about 75% of the DPS server population). It's more about the player and how skilled they are, than the class,... for me anyways. Play what you like, and play it well. Groups and people will take notice and snag you up when you are LFG.

Except Monks pulling isn't just about the adds. It's also about things like FDing if you get stunned/take a big nuke/get rooted, it's about having mend to provide a quick heal to get some mobs back to camp, it's about how Monk's have higher avoidance ac, how melee skills are higher than other classes, how block fires 2x as often as parry, etc. Not to mention once Kunark hits it's discs - short cycle stonestance for example.

So yes, anyone can pull, but there are reasons certain classes tend to do it over others.

in the end, it won't matter cause there will be a shortage of mobs to kill anyway. All it means you'll have an extra 10 seconds every 20 minutes to go afk to the bathroom due to the minuscule dps discrepancy.
Whoopie do....
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Yeah, not disagreeing with you at all here. Monks definitely have all of the tools for the big boy jobs.

I was moreso thinking about xp camp areas where it's not a long pull, or in a heavily camped zone where you're lucky to get 1-2 mobs per pull, in which case *anyone* can pull, really. Someone like a Rogue could make a good name for themselves in those situations.