No FTE on Teek and Tormax

I understand the why , the counter argument is FTE is the mobs engaged.

That was the original concept for kill stealing , if the mob is engaged you are kill stealing it's simple as that.

I suggest pull faster.

The worst case scenario is you have a 50 % chance to win , even if we are talking instant 0 cast timer ability's.

If you are trying to contest a spawn , that is fair no matter how you want to view it even if someone is trying to snipe a camp.


I like you to explain to me how a warrior for example wins vs a mage?

At least in FTE , both have a equal chance to engage the mob. The warrior can compete in this situation.

It's pretty rare for a warrior to be out in the wild soloing mobs that actually mean anything.

That's besides the point . The argument still stands , lets say its skeletons ! The mob is irrelevant.

I don't care regardless , you are still trying to justify kill stealing at it's very essence.

In a FTE based system , the warrior has a chance to compete.

No it wasn't.

So, alternatve view of this encounter. A group of six has been killing PHs for 5 hours. Warrior shows up and now has a 50% chance at being able to get the named if it spawns. How is that better?

6 x attempts to engage vs 1

The probability is on the side of the 6 players to engage first.

The major change is those 6 people can't brute force and take a already engaged mob , that is the definition of kill stealing.

I'm sorry you still didn't sell me. So now you have 6 group members trying to grab the named and the warrior still has a chance. And all the meanwhile, mobs are spawning so you're losing out on xp trying to pull the mob. I don't really see how you think this "sells" FTE?

You keep changing the situation , I find that rather funny.

I am not trying to sell anything , those that have played the system know it reduces toxicity.

At this point you need to sell why , you are anti FTE.

Actually, I don't. FTE isn't popular and wasn't included in the new ruleset. And no, I didn't. You did. You mentioned the scenario of the lone warrior and mentioned he had a 50% chance. Which, honestly, sounds horrible scenario where a single player gets to potentially take mobs from a legitimate group that's been clearing PHs for hours. I'm all about preventing griefing, but this really just has never sounded like a solid answer. At least with DPS racing, you have a good chance of chasing off said warrior. With FTE, you now get to stress over a single named mob. And if said warrior decides to stick around, they have continuing chances to take your named. This really isn't winning anything.

We should let FTE go away and maybe admit that developer time could have been used fixing crappy bottle neck spawns and keys, things like epics. And hope that they will in the future be used that way. Because this was not a popular addition, it hasn't been shown to do anything but transfer how toxic behavior can happen. And if you like it, Oakwynd is still there!

That is your personal opinion , a lot of people enjoyed FTE and know you are coming up with unrealistic situations. The fact is it cut down on the toxicity of the game , im done with this debate.

The FTE server was something a lot of the community were not interested in, Daybreak can see the numbers for themselves. For me it changed EQ too much. While Mischief also changed the game, there were still plently of other options around to play on.

Had this years servers been FTE that would be the second year running players would not have started on them.

Maybe in a few years time they will do FTE again, the same way those who liked Random loot had to wait a few years for it to roll around again. The same way those who want a non truebox server will be waiting at least another year for a server they want to play on.

As it stands now FTE is still on a server which is coming up for a year old and the players can still play there with FTE, it isn't like they removed it.

I am only expanding on examples you, yourself provided and pointed out how they can end up in a horrible, terrible experience. I don't think it cut down on toxcitiy, I think you just played on a server where kronos and RMT weren't as popular so it appeared that way. I don't think this would be effective, fun or productive in a larger test scenario. And I have not seen compelling evidence to make me rethink that.

Actually, KSing definition is any number of people taking loot from a mob that is obviously being hunted or so-called camped by any number of people e.g. a grp of 6 taking from 1.
FTE just makes it not only possible, but easy for 1 person to KS any number of people, including 6 in the above example.

There is nothing classic or "EQ1" about FTE, infact it's the opposite.
It was introduced as a rather major change as a unique mechanic without much if any discussion with the playerbase.
For one, I'm happy it's not in Teek.

In the meantime, it's quite annoying that they won't do other easier fixes that the community do discuss and request a lot, like re-balancing rogues or more races/classes available earlier, and justify it by claiming it's part of classic or EQ1 or just stay silent.

I don't think you know what a Strawman argument is, it wasn't an argument it was me sharing a fact and an opinion, I'll leave it up to you to figure out which was which.

KS (Kill Stealing) was defined in 1999 as any player who takes a mob already engaged,

There were no so called camps...

You can not KS on FTE servers as the first to engage won the race to the mob.

While the gamekeepers have NEVER recognized camps the player base has...

Only the player base can not stop a over powered group from just brute force taking a mob already engaged.

On Oakwynd when players saw others at a particular player recognized camp....they did not try and steal because they could no longer win with simple brute force.

it is a huge difference.

In reality, no-one cares who engaged who or what first, it's the loot that matters.
Most people would be anoid if they've been kiling PHs for hours and someone else just logs in and engages first or does 51% damage, and takes the loot.
FTE didn't stop someone from logging in and taking the loot. Infact, it just changed the mechanic so a solo now has a chance over a group, especially if they're using auto clickers

Yes people do care...

There are two ways to decide who gets the loot...

Neither have the word CAMP in the description.

Who ever does the most damage
or
Who ever engages first.

The gamekeepers very early on decided it was whoever engaged first...

It was put into the PnP....

It was followed up until about 2004 when GM and Guide presence vanished.

The reason they created a first to engage mechanism seems pretty clear...

I literally left EQ during Fippy Darkpaw...due to the number of people in game KSing everyone.

There were people who went around looking for other players to KS because they got off on taking a mob from someone.

I came back in 2023 because of FTE....and it worked really well...

It had a couple bugs early on...that were remedied very quickly.

Is it perfect...no...

Is it better than a straight up DPS race...ALL DAMN DAY.

There's nothing classic or EQ about random loot, but here you are excited to play it. It erodes the primary fundamental game loop of original EQ. If you're going to say some obscure and/or arbitrary boomer complaint about FTE, at least make sure you're not being hyper selective in what you define as "EQ"

Interesting story from the past...

As a general rule the game keepers wanted players to find a way to resolve conflicts...

Many people remember the Giant Fort in Burning Woods.

A favorite camp for Necromancers.

It was crowded in the original days of Kunark. Okay XP for Kunark solid cash camp.

Players were lining up on the ramp in a line to get the next spawn...

a Necro shows up basically announces it is now his camp and we could not stop them...

GMs were called the the fort on many occasions.

Originally the Necro won because they were first to engage...even the GM said he was not going to intervene because of it...

Then something funny happened...

All the players that had agreed to share the camp decide that the necro was not getting away with this...

Simple solution root his pull...which quickly killed his pet....lol

so no more fear kiting..lol

Should the players root an already engaged mob no...but the players had come up with a way to resolve the issue of lack a spawn and the necro would not go along....he petitioned...

Everyone said hey we were racing he used his dot to pull we rooted he won the race but our root still landed and killed his pet...

The GM laughed and said maybe he will get in line now...

One person got suspended for 3 days for clearly rooting a mob already engaged...but when we learned to cast as he was pulling it changed the dynamic.

Players are smarter than your average dumb bear...

And when others try and take advantage...you deal with them.

But make no mistake early in EQ the rule was first to engage.