Does Truebox actually solve anything?

My experience with previous non-truebox TLPs is exactly what Trevalon said. It was absolute madness at times. There will always be some guy explointing things, but as Lejaun says, in general it keeps honest people honest for the most part. There was still a guy doing Tormax by himself on Mangler with 40ish autobots...and a few other edge cases, but just imagine 100 of those guys all over the place.

For those expecting run-of-the-mill 6 boxing to go away and think that the existence of 6 boxing proves true box doesn't work...yeah you'll be disappointed. But it was never supposed to do that in the first place. It would be "no box" if that was the case.

Causes me to buy more computers that's all. Luckily eq runs on potatoes with no g card so... its cheap anyway to get around truebox and playing on several computers with several monitors is more enjoyable to me than doing it on on computer.

Anything more than two would be much better with a machine for each account....when you only play two characters it is much easier to play two on one machine with a dual monitor setup.

Move mouse to other screen and you are controlling 2nd character....all with one mouse and keyboard.

well another tlp will i 6 box on 2 pc and 4 laptops or 12 box on 1 pc,6 more subs for daybreak.currently 6 boxing in eq

You missed the point and made a silly argument

Nothing silly about my argument.

"People are going to do X anyway so why even try?"

That's what is 'silly'.

I prefer two physical machines to box. I still haven't figured out how to enjoy playing a third account. I tried using a laptop for a third account and didn't like it at all. I also tried playing a box on my other computer and alt-tabbing between two characters on my main computer but I didn't like the setup either.

A third account really opens up Norrath for a player. Two boxing it is.

I do PC and 2 laptops, 2nd laptop is usually ranger that I can just turn bow on and forget about or a bard for added goodness.

I prefer seperate machines even on live, especially with the DX11 issue with tabbing. Recently I've been grouping instead of boxing, just need to talk them into coming to the next TLP with me. Or I need to talk the friends I played on Mischief with to come back.

Usually left hand heals, right hand DPSs, it works for me with 2 keyboards, with 2nd laptop sat on printer in front of me, only a slight movement needed to hit assist and autofire.

I prefer to group with other people.

I'll start with saying that I understand the premise and opinions of those that don't like people that box and especially when contending with more massive group armies. However, I have been boxing since early Luclin and it's the only way I will ever play Everquest.

I think there is more to it than honest people being honest. I think a lot of people just don't play on truebox servers because we don't like that ruleset. In that regards, it is definitely doing something. If they want my money for a TLP, the solution is to launch box friendly servers along with truebox.If they don't, it's fine with me, I'll just play something else.

Two on one is pretty efficient...

I have for a short time played three characters, but it was two on one and third on a second PC and three characters is just hard to manage and enjoy the game.

Most people playing 6+ on a single machine are using software they should not be using be we all know people still use it and very little will ever be done about it, I hope FTE servers will allow them to try and go after people who break the rules...

Ofcourse its a silly argument - I never advocated that you should be able to cheat without repercussions, as the cheaters already do. But why should the rest of us pay the price, only being able to box if we want to pay a higher electric bill? There is ZERO reason i shouldnt be able to 3 box on one machine, as my machine can easily handle that and it would be a more enjoyable experience to being able to tab between toons.

But i guess i could just hook up some laptops and run some boxing programs instead and 12-18 box, since that is apparently fine with you. Or even look into the paid options to just outright bypass the Truebox code instead. It doesnt sound like its gonna alleviate the issue, but hey, at least the filthy casuals will enjoy the game less.

Relaxed truebox should be in from the beginning. 3 per PC. Most people who box do so at 2 toons. If you had 2 PC's you could box a full group whenever you wanted. Waiting till Omens is ridiculous, and the vast majority of players has already quit by then.

The barrier to entry exists so that the RMTlords taco bell money is protected.

I think the main reason behind true box is because the 3rd Party software that most large multi-box crews use requires the characters be on a single machine.

I play two on one machine where allowed with a dual monitor and it is slick to simply move my mouse to the left scree to control the second character and can still see from both characters at same time.

I would love a FTE server that stops at Oow/DoN so I never see defiant armor. and get to relaxed box ruleset....lol Free Trade or heirloom is fine with me...

I just wanna be able to 3 box from one machine so i can start my own group when its a slow time. Honestly, relaxed truebox from the start is the ONLY preference i have for a TLP, eventho i'd love to see many other good ones like zerker/beast right away, SoL low level spells and just general QoL.

I think they need to outright crack down on 3rd party programs tho, none of them are okay to use according to the very very un-enforced EULA. But, then they need to invest time and money to do so and thus, that wont happen.

Truebox helps limit the number of actual 6-boxers who can completely monopolize content and undermine the social aspect of Everquest. Still, I think it should apply only to boxes above two. It should be possible to two-box from one computer even on new TLPs.

The overwhelming majority of players only two-box. Those who go beyond that are a tiny minority. Two-boxing really doesn't have enough of a harmful effect on the game that it needs to be restricted. Meanwhile, since like 50% of a server does it, it means thousands of secondary computers pointlessly running and wasting energy for hours a day. While the same would be true of people boxing more than two characters, they're too small a number to really matter whereas two-boxers account for probably 98% of the unnecessary additional energy consumption that goes into the truebox feature.

I'm not kidding about any of that. This is the kind of thing that society needs to start to be mindful of. It's the same reason McDonald's gives you cardboard straws nowadays. Some cases of environmental wastefulness are too minuscule to bother with, e.g. the tiny percentage of a server who boxes 3+ characters; but the 50% who box two make for a very real and highly unnecessary waste of energy.

Anyone who's enough of a nerd to play EQ in this day and age has at least two computers anyway, so truebox doesn't represent a meaningful reduction in two-boxing, nor would lifting the restriction cause a significant rise in two-boxing. It just has to stay in place for boxes beyond two.

I'm living proof that you're wrong. I would box at least 6 but I play on TLPs and the barriers to doing so are more trouble than it's worth to me.

That isnt proof of anything, its one example that one person feels like you do. We know for a fact that a lot if not all kronolords will bypass the truebox regardless and those are the people that are the main problem - The people who box armies and lock down anything they can and want, with no repercussions because the game has rules that are not policed. I used to 6 box back on Fippy, no programs either and i still wasnt a problem for anyone, because the 36+ box armies were running around or was camping every single named in a zone - Those are the problem, not casual boxers

It is absolute proof that the statement "No...The people that are going to box are going to find away this box." is incorrect because I am a person who would if not for truebox.

He was clearly claiming that truebox didn't stop boxing and I am living proof that it does.

Now we can all speculate on what percent of boxers it stops but you're gonna lose that argument too because we have a proven history of what early expac boxing and botting looks like on truebox vs non truebox servers.

This is the crux of it. It would be one thing if the violations weren't so flagrant, but everybody has seen the identical bot trains go by, truebox or no truebox. The problem is that DBG is actively disincentivized from enforcing restrictions against the worst offenders, because sanctioning the worst offenders represents a bigger hit to their bottom line. So instead we get infrequent, performative enforcement against a few casual violators at the beginning of each TLP cycle, and meanwhile Mr. One-man-raid-force continues with impunity because the casuals are bankrolling him by spending cash on Kronos.

And that's the problem.

I like truebox in theory, and I absolutely 100% agree that the marginal increase in the barrier to entry for boxing is enough to dissuade most--but crucially, not all--of those who would otherwise box. That genuinely creates an experience for most players that more closely resembles the EQ we know and love. So it's definitely better than nothing. But it's a double-edged sword, and a clumsy, ham-fisted one at that, another instance of a company attempting to automate away an effort that still requires real human manpower. One of my recent TLP jaunts ended when I found myself sitting at the entrance to Velk's LFG as a bot army ran by, and I know I'm not the only one who's had that what-the-f-am-I-even-doing-here feeling. If the rules aren't applied even-handedly, why should people bother complying?

All of that is to say that I think it's an issue worth revisiting. Truebox, to its credit, was a desperately needed innovation when it began. But that was several years ago now, and the fact that it's better than doing nothing doesn't mean that it couldn't be improved.

Personally I don't know what an improvement looks like. At this point it seems like DBG is conceding that the bot armies are here to stay, and if that's just going to be a reality of TLPs because the company doesn't care to solve that problem, then they need to be looking at what creates a better experience for the rest of the players. Relaxed truebox might be an avenue on that front. To be candid, all of the bad experiences I've had involving boxes were people running raid-force volume bot armies. The two- and three-boxers I've played with have generally been decent folks just looking to make the most of their limited time, and the relaxed truebox ruleset has already been implemented on TLPs now, thanks to facing reality about what happens to TLP populations past POP. On the other hand, no-box is certainly as level a playing field as you can get, but that's just another rule I wouldn't expect anyone to enforce.

If the bot armies didn't still exist, this conversation wouldn't matter. But since they do, maybe DBG needs to just start selling exceptions to the truebox rules. After all, it worked for RMT. If you can't beat them, join them.