MMORPGs are a work in progress. The quest never ends, hence EverQuest. There is nothing stopping our esteemed Darkpaw devs from making tweaks to class balance. I started a thread a few months ago that showed there vast imbalance in the players that are playing the classes and I provided graphs of various populations. The evidence is clear but it is ignored. Classes are designed to be desirable and played. No developer makes a class with the idea that "Hey, only 10% will play this class and that's okay..." Everquest is a class-based MMO that leverages class interdependcey to create social cohesion. Making sure classes are balanced should be a top priority in a class based MMO. Nobody wants to play in a virtual world were most people choose to play a few classes. That's boring. EQ class balance for TLP servers for the 1-60 experience could easily be addressed and fixed. If only 10% of your players are choosing to play a class, that's a huge red flag that you have failed to design and maintain the class properly. We know that EQ makes the lion's share of revenue for Darkpaw. They have the money. They have the technology. Where is the will? I'd love for the senior design team to come here and explain why class balance is not a priority. We get these yearly product roadmaps, but unfortunately players have no say on what items get put on the road map. Imagine the absurdity of getting on a Greyhound bus and not knowing there the driver will take you to. That's EQ in 2023.
I have never read or heard a developer, past or present speak about actively working on anything to do with class balance, class development yes, at least they used to. I have however heard several developers from various points in EQ's history say that class balance was either blunty not a thing at all or not a big deal for the developers at the time they were working for the company when it was discussed. Players care vastly more about the concept of class balance than the devs do, when developers worked on classes they pretty much did so with an absence of an overview of overall class balance, maybe that's because nobody thought it really mattered or was important enough to the game's survival , maybe nobody cared about it, or maybe it is that simply maybe that nobody was interested to take on a hugely difficult umbrella concept that would require a very broad and in depth working knowledge of every single class and would mean them stepping all over the design choices of every other designer working on classes in pursuit of some over-arching mystical goal when looking around at the rest of the gamespace pretty much no MMO has ever had anything remotely close to good Class Balance anyway.
There's plenty of people who still feel that way. Not everyone takes the game as seriously. There's always been a vast difference between players who want to play as well as possible and those who just want to chat with their friends. The conversations were there even if you weren't participating. For an example, here's how players were talking about some of these issues in 99: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.everquest/c/Yek9b6zUxGo/m/DLIJ5xW6SIoJ https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.everquest/c/-D4Ebi9i4Yk/m/WUXSdiyLFcwJ https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.everquest/c/egclON6Wnsw/m/u-8C8Ch6F0sJ This is also an area where FFXIV does a pretty good job so it's not fair to say all devs on all games do a bad job so we shouldn't expect better from EQ. The big difference I think is that if you don't play the game, and additionally don't play the game at a decently high level, you'll have no idea how to balance anything. And given that the devs responsible for class design don't play the game, and have little reason to trust individual players, the only way they know something is wrong is if enough people complain. Which is why I think this is a good thread and we shouldn't just let these topics drop. However, it may help to focus the issues on specific problems/changes so there's a better chance of something being done.
I wonder about the newish banner mods and how those may be colouring peoples perception as well when it comes to balance. Every time we get a new mod it seems to affect some classes disproportionatly compared to others - I appreciate the banner is meant to help people catch up but I hope it's not a factor in any next expansion balance discussions as it won't be available.
Not true because everyone plays differently and certain things lead people in certain directions. All types of things even in a perfectly balanced game would be steering lots of folks to certain classes over others. Take healers in the group game for example. Most go shaman as a box due to ease of use and it being good enough while adding in more non healing stuff. In terms of outright healing tools, duration and power clerics win but in a group non main setting that while balanced isn't enough to draw them to cleric equally. In the raid game you need multiple of both even with Squall power if the raid works to thats favor.
You missed the point of what I was trying to get at. In a perfect world where thr classes were all balanced, viable, and desired, class population would be fairly balanced within 10% of thr base line, and base line being 100 / 16 = 6.6%
Even in some fiction world of perfectly balanced in everyones eyes the classes in a archtype would still be different. Leading to situations where people pick one over the other for the situation at hand. There are far to many variables at play outside of class balance that steer the population. With that said there is absolutely a dps balance issue in this game for just about every class. Tanks to each other are balanced but far to high relative to dps classes. 2 priests relative to each others dps are balanced but compared to actual dps classes are to high. Thats before you even look at actual dps classes and their forms of dps verses content be it AE, verses scripts that penalize some forms more then others and on and on.
Consider new players are overwhelmingly encouraged to choose pet classes or SK's, and you've got your answer.
One thing I have never understood in terms of class balance neglect is that a person experiences the game through the character he/she plays and the people that work on this game forget this it seems. Let me explain my thought.. Early on when we begin this game we look at the characters and see one we identify with, we begin to play that character and fall in love. As time goes on you make friends, and join a guild, maybe you raid maybe you just group maybe you just sit in the lobby or PoK and chat. We all find different avenues to enjoy the game. BUT let us be realistic, for a large portion of us EQ is like most games it is about digging in and figuring out how to be the best and then work on becoming that. To me that led to raiding at a higher end and wanting to compete with fellow guildmates (many of who have become very close friends, some even become like family) then to eventually see your class (something you have grown to love) slowly year after year fall to neglect hits you hard. Many roll a new class so they can continue to play with friends but eventually quit. I have seen it happen in my guild. I think the biggest bummer about class balance is the fact that it will not happen. Per the devs themselves. I believed what was conveyed to me was.. "forget any type of class balance, we do not have the time" There is "no flavor of the month" class in EQ. It is more like "flavor of the decade"
The big issue with class balance is this, Balanced in what area? You have Solo, groups, Raids, PVP, and utility, and each will perform differently in different circumstances. For example, Paladin's are great tanks in groups (not as good as warriors), but throw in some undead and then they are great DPS too. Monks are average dps on raids at the moment apparently (and there is little need for splitting camps in raids from what I have seen), but in a group a monk could do great, especially open world trying to split/tag named like in Shadowhaven which is a mess at times. Monks can save a lot of time and clearing. Druids are alright healers for groups (and I spend time healing the mage groups in raids), but then in groups I have been the evac/saviour many times, which has prevented wipes. I will admit some classes seem OP currently, like Beastlords and Mages and Necros (Ok pet classes) but in PVP take out the player, their pets are gone! I a game like World of Warcraft where everything boils down to "how big is my Dps",then yes balance is an issue. They rely on zero utility and zero CC and zero everything but DPS and HPS. Even tanks in WoW are all about how much DPS they can put out/how big they can pull. Utility classes are very underrated, but can shift the flow easily, between having the ENCH line up and mez mobs, shaman buffing the heck out of everything making runs much more easier. Once you start balancing classes you then have to look at the whole kit of the class. You bring say DPS within a few % of each other, then suddenly people will go well, Rangers/Rogues/Zerks can Headshot/decap etc, they would be more desired just for that. Or because monks can FD, clear all negative effects and (on a 30 second timer) heal for a ton of damage, why take a zerk who hits the same but cant heal/fd/cure all as fast as a monk can? You bring tanks up to par with each other, same levels of HP for "Balance" and same DPS, then why bring anything but a Paladin who splash heals off of everything? You bring casters up to point, why bring a wizard when if an enchanter can do same DPS they can mez etc, or a mage who can pet tank in a pinch? Or if everything was equal DPS, why bring a rogue/monk to raid when you have a beastlord who can suddenly restore a ton of mana? With on average 54 raid slots per raid (from what I have seen), raid leaders need to find ways to weed out classes, and so some will always be cut. I am yet to see on my raids though the raid leader go "no class XXXXX at all, lets replace them with class YYYY"... My advice if balance is an issue and you are worried about being sat out, work on your character. Get all your AAs (pretty easy these days). Target the best upgrades for your class, target missions to get all the bonues heroes vitality etc AAs, run missions till you dream of them in your sleep so you have all the heroic stat augs you can dream of. A Character with better base DPS will always fall short of someone who has every focus AA, every buff to HP/Mana/AC etc. This includes running old expansions for group etc missions to get those heroic fortitude etc AA, because every point of HP/Armor etc makes you that little bit tougher, and dead dps= no dps.
eA Fantastic post! Thanks for the links to the old conversations as well. They were extremely valuable and insightful. Back then players knew the problems with each class. I think devs were more responsive in those days. The turnover at SOE was kinda crazy, so devs were giving 110%, they wanted to get noticed, and wanted to make sure the players were happy. The forum community was much better back in those days. They were farn more open-minded then the forums of today. They were giving the devs cutting edge analysis and forum posters were more receptive and they didn't gang up on them for making suggestions. The core problem with EQ is that the devs don't play the game with any degree of regularity that mirriors the passion and intensity of the players. If you're not playing the game a few days a week, you are out of touch with the players. There is no way to sugarcoat that fundamental truth. At the very least, devs should be given paid time every week to play the game for their own enjoyment. But anytime anyone mentions this, a brigade of white knights comes charging out to circle the wagons. Darkpaw needs to do an episode of Undercover Boss and force the devs to join real guilds and see the problem and bugs that players in the trenches face every day. Their is a revolving door at Darkpaw as well. Every year more people leave for bigger and better things at bigger and better studios. Hint: if you want to keep good talent, you need to pay them more, provide a workplace ethos and culture that makes people feel welcome and gives them a self-actualizing career path. Holly Longdale is a perfect example of an amazing EQ dev who's enthusiasm for the franchise was infectious but left for greener pastures. I don't blame her one bit. There are probably more ex-EQ devs working Blizzard now than there are here at Darkpaw. In the final analysis, what we say on the forums seems to falls on deaf ears. As long as players keep voting with their feet and keep paying to play, nothing will ever change. This is the kind of reciprocity that 23 years of loyalty gets you. It's mind boggling to say the least. Motivational business author Daniel Pink talks about how many top companies give their employes a "FedEx" day once a month. Employees can work on anything they like for one full day, as long as it something related to their business. Many innovations have come from this kind of freedom because it harnesses the passion of their workforce.The same thing could be done at Darkpaw. Additionally, Darkpaw could give every employee a "game day" where they play EQ for 8 hours and have fun, get to meet other players. They could devote one day for Quality of Life issues. They could devote one day to class balance every month too. I realize change is not easy, but it's 2023 folks. The business principles of 1999 don't cut it anymore in the video game industry. I expect to see nothing more than a total transformation of Darkpaw's studio culture, work ethic, and their approach to transparencey and customer engagement in the forthcoming EverQuest 3 era.
Class balance is hard and might take actual work to accomplish. Better to just pump-n-dump cookie cutter expansions guided by the spreadsheet gods and call it a day.
