Been wondering where our tanks should be at dps-wise on raids Usually we have 10 tanks online (like 5 wars, 3 SK and 2 pals probably) What should we expect a pally or war to put out in terms of DPS on events like Spirits Fade, Queen Hashiss or Shadows Move? all pretty straight forward fights where it should be easy to do some decent dps Anyone got some parses they wanna share? (and ofcourse mention if its with bard support, power glyphs etc)
I'm assuming you're asking as a non-top tier raid force, but not a hodge podge Open force either. Personally, if you care about a paladin's dps on your raids, I think you are doing it wrong. DPS is clearly a distant third on a paladin's worth. At the moment, I only raid with the Opens on Xegony and we're usually light on warriors and especially paladins (but every group gets a shadowknight! ... only somewhat kidding). The tanks are generally put in tank groups (tanks, healers generally only) so they might get a shaman, but no other real adps. We've also got a lot of folks not on mains during the raids. Looking at our parses from those events (and realizing I play a wizard on these so I miss stuff), our shadowknights seem to average around mid 400s dps on Spirits Fade, low 400s dps on Shadows Move (for those sks not kiting golems), and high 300s on Queen (I'm probably missing damage at Queen the way casters are setup for us). I looked over 4 weeks (we don't do all of those raids each week). Eyeballing, I'd say the top sks are usually 100k dps over the average, and I cannot tell/do not remember which sks had real tanking duties vs just spot filling. You don't say what your sks, warriors and I guess paladins are doing atm as dps (along with what kind of support they are getting). So it's kinda hard to compare apples vs oranges. But there are some sk numbers that at least should be a floor for anyone that uses sks as purely (or close to pure) dps. Edit - our warriors are always tanking so no numbers for them.
My sk can push 750 to 850k dps if I'm really trying and not tanking hardly anything on most raids. Purely in a tank group l. 400 to 550 if I'm tanking a lotta stuff. I am NOT an expert or usually trying super hard to dps on an sk. I know sks in Ms can push 900 to 1m while tanking fairly heavily on some raids. Figure warriors might be doing more or about the same but haven't looked nor do I know many that try much. Don't know pallies other than it's gonna be less.
Are we talking burns or just overall event DPS? Our tanks tend to hover in the 300-600k DPS range for overall events. We also generally have minimal aDPS in our tank groups (i.e. a Shaman at most). For burn fights, 1 million plus for any of the tank classes is pretty common.
Looking at the past week: Spirits Fade our SKs do around 700-800k, Wars around 500k, our pallys doing 150-250k Queen in paludal our SKs do around 700k, wars around 450k, pals 100k Shadows Move in firefall SK do 700-800k, wars 400-500k, pals 100-200k Im thinking it might be a raid setup thing. Wars and SKs have no support. No sham, bard, etc. Usually MT group is 3 wars, 3 clerics or 3 wars, 2 clerics and a knight, group 2 for adds would then be war, 2 SK, pal and 2 clerics. Something like that Some pals will often be put in caster groups as backup healer So I guess Im trying to work out if we tanks are low on dps, even considering the lack of support Personally Im playing war and having a hard time to break 500k no matter how hard I try and seems same for the others Guess it doesnt seem too bad. But I'd love to get anywhere near 1mil on a burn...wow
Again, I'd ignore the paladins. Judge them on healing numbers and if they are picking up their assignments (and not losing aggro all over the place). I think your warriors and SKs are fine personally, especially with little to no support (I honestly don't know what Auspice does for tanks ... and whether you have Auspice for most/all of your fights). I'd look at your dps classes for more improvement if you are feeling underwhelmed by your raid's dps at this point. IMO modern raids are so much easier with tanks that focus on tanking and letting their healers AE heal more ... which lets your dps group healers (assuming druids and shammies) dps more and have to save individual folks less.
You can post zhane dps from last night and heal for what a paladin does on open raids in a traditional tank group. As i'm too lazy to do it. The first 2 % based adds on shiknar is when I burned valor/pf while 2h tanking them. Was about 1m on each.
Group content and the reason I believe they cannot tweak burst paladin DPS: Vius Vex in 70s, 297.98M Damage @4.26M, 1. Aallayna = 141.58M@2.02M in 70s My lineup has no spell damage, so that's all melee. Midnight only: Midnight in 151s, 12.38B Damage @82.01M, 28. Aallayna = 204.76M@1.37M in 149s {G} Old expansion content with 1/2 a raid and my standard stun/healing load since I was MT: The Primal Vampire in 1322s, 15.93B Damage @12.05M, 2. Aallayna = 1.43B@1.08M in 1322s {7D} These are outliers, either undead as the MT, short burst events, full burns.... The typical sword/board tanking is more like: Combined (41): A cliknar nymph in 651s, 26.96B Damage @41.41M, 35. Aallayna = 148.56M@248.43K in 598s Combined (36): Demonstrated Depletion in 981s, 34.50B Damage @35.17M, 32. Aallayna +Pets = 273.62M@283.84K in 964s {D} Which illustrates that our sustained DPS could use a significant boost while our burst could be stagnated a bit.
As a warrior who main tanks most of the time for open raids (so no banner buff) on Xegony, my DPS generally falls in the 300-500K range with no ADPS in the tank group. If I shield tank the whole time (usually not a lot of healing margin to fool around with in open raids), I pretty consistently end up around 300K. When there are SK epics available, I can dual wield while MTing whenever it's up and I end up with 400-500K. Upwards of 600K if I can dual wield the whole time. If I die in the middle, I usually end up somewhere in the 300s, depending on exactly when I die, and whether I can get rebuffs after rez. I haven't had a chance to test out real burning in a raid ADPS group in years.
I would be interested on seeing parses from SKs and which events they're pushing 1 mil dps. I find it hard to believe they could regularly sustain that amount on the longer lasting raids.
Comparing tank parses are pretty much worthless because of the many many different factors that go into each parse that can never be duplicated.
I sustained 983k over 3300s this week on sk iirc, takes a lot of effort compared to like warriors with auto attack. For the most part we do parse higher just takes more effort.
Wait, are you telling me that, in a group, if I don't spend all my time on my SK (I only 2 box with a bard) my warrior will do more damage or is that raid only? I have never managed to get my warrior anywhere near the same ballpark DPS as the SK, but then again, I am a better (not good) SK than warrior.
A poorly played warrior should generally out-parse a poorly played shadowknight. Pictured: A bard playing /melody and warrior with autoattack grinding down easy mobs. also pictured, a shadowknight multi-dotting
On the gargoyle event when stuck in a dps group due to switching out off the bench (so with adps): Combined (16): a dyek`dator centi in 233s, 426.63M Damage @1.83M, 1. Abazzagorath = 426.63M@1.81M in 236s So not crazy burning, some inactivity waiting for midnights to both be active and in between centi waves. Worth noting since we're never in a dps group. This was the part where I bothered hitting burns (after 50%, live mob, no glyph or intensity): Midnight in 91s, 301.19M Damage @3.31M, 1. Abazzagorath = 301.19M@3.31M in 91s Primal vampire event (undead) but never bothered to hit ANY burns: Combined (38): The Primal Vampire in 366s, 185.85M Damage @507.79K, 1. Abazzagorath +Pets = 185.85M@502.30K in 370s Pit fight, never burned, always tanking, always in 1h/shield, all live mobs and some decent time spamming aggro at range waiting for add to activate: Combined (26): a warblood in 406s, 103.76M Damage @255.56K, 1. Abazzagorath +Pets = 103.76M@251.23K in 413s Doomshade, not going fast doing an achievement, only 1 run away emote, but its undead: Combined (18): Doomshade in 375s, 263.67M Damage @703.13K, 1. Abazzagorath +Pets = 263.67M@699.40K in 377s The end part of that one event, whatever it is called, no burn. Combined (16): Keltakun, Last Word in 379s, 182.58M Damage @481.75K, 1. Abazzagorath = 182.58M@480.48K in 380s Deepshade2: Combined (25): Serene Mass in 410s, 175.42M Damage @427.86K, 1. Abazzagorath +Pets = 175.42M@425.78K in 412s Those are mostly 1h/shield. I don't have any reason to parse really but just checked last couple weeks of raid logs for a range of examples. I don't see any reason a paladin shouldn't be at 400-600k sustained with zero burns, and 700-900k if you weren't tanking at a point long enough to burn. And as you can see from a non-undead mob, we gain a TON from melee adps, which is one reason dps classes are ticked off at tanks.
I'm a warrior in a top 10 raiding guild. We are in tank groups with also no support at all, only MGB adps. On the events listed, for active tanks tanking / looking for adds untanked on waves, I see SK at around 700-800 k, Warriors at 600-700 k, Paladins at 400-500 k. For example, here are some of my recent DPS parse (when no death) on the events listed. Combined (37): A cliknar nymph in 490s, 26,22B Damage @53,50M, 30. Warrior +Pets = 342,62M@724,35K in 473s Combined (49): A dyek`dator centi in 458s, 20,44B Damage @44,62M, 36. Warrior +Pets = 259,78M@641,44K in 405s Combined (31): Demonstrated Depletion in 569s, 33,30B Damage @58,52M, 38. Warrior +Pets = 393,99M@701,05K in 562s
Sk tank parse: warrior adps usually. open raid force: Combined (63): Energetic Mass in 1614s, 38.87B Damage @24.08M, 20. Bloodybag +Pets = 893.86M@565.02K in 1582s {HDDHX} Combined (63): Energetic Mass in 1639s, 417.02M Tanked @254.44K, 1. Bloodybag = 86.24M Combined (39): Mutable Monstrosity in 873s, 25.34B Damage @29.02M, 7. Bloodybag +Pets = 843.06M@966.81K in 872s {H7} Combined (39): Mutable Monstrosity in 873s, 227.63M Tanked @260.74K, 4. Bloodybag = 17.59M Combined (52): A cliknar nymph in 996s, 175.85M Tanked @176.56K, 1. Bloodybag = 50.57M Combined (52): A cliknar nymph in 994s, 26.73B Damage @26.90M, 10. Bloodybag +Pets = 766.52M@789.41K in 971s {HD} Combined (69): A fer`dator centi in 1099s, 24.15B Damage @21.97M,4. Bloodybag +Pets = Combined (69): A fer`dator centi in 1088s, 195.90M Tanked @180.06K, 5. Bloodybag = 12.27M Had A shaman/ench/nec/mage for adps Combined (44): Manifest Lethargy in 938s, 35.21B Damage @37.54M, 4. Bloodybag +Pets = 1.34B@1.43M in 934s {HG7} Combined (44): Manifest Lethargy in 938s, 188.16M Tanked @200.59K, 3. Bloodybag = 12.13M Combined (77): A warblood in 1226s, 39.34B Damage @32.09M, 23. Bloodybag +Pets = 736.70M@655.42K in 1124s {HDX} Combined (77): A warblood in 1262s, 286.33M Tanked @226.89K, 2. Bloodybag = 53.72M Had paladin from xegony opens but maybe I deleted log file by accident? Dps on shiknar usually assigned the blue con shiknar %.(so typically just tanking one add at a time with 2h) was about 450k for event. Gumdrop: Some time with 1her/shield in when epic/good mitigation and multiples was around 275-325k. FF: was pretty decent but minimal tanking assignments due to not tanking anything but the alien waves. I can't remember the average
