Anyone wanna share some tank dps parses?

I'd have to go back to some older Parses because it depends on the event and how many tanks on the raid. So my guild is kinda small and casual raiding on Live. We really didnt start weekly raiding until last year. So our first real raids were CoV. We worked on Zlandi and most of us had a full set top group gear from ToL about this time, Some of us were lucky had a few raid peices from weekly open raids. We were building up our gear as a guild. That's the backstory.

So on Zlandi we were typically tank heavy. At first as an SK, was on rat patrol during the event. But after we beat it and had it on farm and i wasnt add tank or banish tank there were a few nights that we way to tank heavy. I got the chance to straight DPS the fight a few times. .

So... ( pull anger mask off, put in crap mask, no VoT or hate ) HT off the bat with an immediate FD, get back up. go Zombie form, 2hander. Running Spite for the debuff. Spires just because, Time your lifetaps between swings as best you can. Watch the aggro meter and FD drop anytime you get over 60, ( i try to stay a little higher in case our tank rotations goes bad on banish, get bad luck timing and get delayed by rat or drachs or lag). ABB . "ALWAYS BE BURNING " Click swarm pets and EPIC immediatly after. Then my clicky Aura. and just keep 2h and tapping. Now... in my guild i am better geared than most of the DPS. Back then on straight DPS i was usually around 7 in the top ten. it was Mage/necro, Rog, some zerkers, beast, then me. Now fast foward. 24 man Shei raid 6 months later. Same thing. I get to DPS if we are heavy on tanks that night and add bane crew is solid. I ended up in the top 10 and even 5 a few times using a power glyph at around 5% for the final burn. Long fight but worth it.

Havent really had the chance to just straight DPS on most raids now. So not sure how i'd fair now. If the fight is quick like Zlandi I don't bother with any dot other than bynn. cast timer is longer and in the time you could be wrecking with the 2h. But on Shei small raid, i had a dot rotation, 4 on a macro. Just to keep the DPS consistent so we dont get too many bane adds to fast. We had some members come and go and folks made alts for classes we need to tailor for certain events. Less knights more DPS. And its working out.

(( With just me, my cleric merc and my GF's necro with her rog merc. We burn grp door pretty well. A defensive glyph, Zombie form, 2h , a def disc, send swarm, epic, BP click,. PoW aura click. We burn that fooker down before any adds pop. pro-tip... SK epic lands on pets and mercs. so always get yer mages or necro to send swarms and time your epic for that swarm bumrush.

But pound for pound all things being relative SK's have higher DPS than Pally's or Wars.... its the lifetaps.

Finally managed a clean, unbroken 10 min parse from main tanking Dawn/Midnight in Firefall raid as a warrior in an open raid.

No banner buff (open raid, not in the only guild that can put a banner up)
No ADPS in tank group
No unexpected breaks (just a couple seconds moving around for auras)
No dying
Dual wield NoS raid warrior swords the whole time

Cannikin +Pets = 417.60M@687.98K in 607s

I probably could've gotten a little bit higher (700K?) if I had timed my DPS discs and rampages a bit better to line up with add waves (mostly used them as extra healing with SK epic), but I think this is about as good as I can practically expect being a MT without ADPS or banner buff.

Group make up has more to do with Warrior dps than the same buttons your pushing than every Warrior does.

Its not a secret that adps is a thing.

Sk's without adps pound for pound have higher dps ceiling's than pal/war because they have direct input/clicking buttons available to them. Paladin dps is solely popping off their burn, popping a dps glyph if they miraculously get a kill shot (and in the case of pf/valor having already been used) hit holyforge and time on target with 2h. Warriors are very similar in that the majority of their dps is auto attack (time on target- one can make the argument on the dps gains on 2h vs dw specific to dpsing while not tanking or tanking 1-2 adds with ecliptic/secondary mitigation), utilizing brightfields+determined when the most amount of mobs are up to rampage and going into war sheol's at the correct time. Aside from the burning aspect; they have more direct action via cast counts on shield rupture, hurricane blades, and rampage when most amount of targets are within range. And not using a shield for defensive proficiency.

I strongly disagree specifically that "lifetaps" are the dps disparity between the tanks. Take a look at a dps breakdown and you will see how minimal lifetaps provide for total damage and what that equates to for actual dps. Outside of quicktime/imp command lifetaps in general are bad when tanking multiple mobs specific to leech effects running. Ecliptic/insidious are the two caveats here and to a lesser degree dire but the benefit is survivability not dps (use case of having to move from spot a to spot b- saving repudiate for getting summoned back and ability to hit ecliptic while on the run if you need the health or dire once you get done moving/being summoned for the biggest tap/quickest cast time). Delaying your melee round while taking multiple rounds of damage is more liable to get you killed if you are not getting single target healed. But, that's a discussion for another day. Specific to SK dps: it is how strong their spell burn is in a multi dot rich environment on top of how strong their melee burn is. All while having the ability to tank multiple mobs due to their ability to run mitigation while utilizing either burns. Whereas without dragon scales, war and more so pallys are limited to their options on running mitigation while their burn discs are in combat abilities window. Which is why I was hopeful for the "champions oath" for paladins last beta... Tanking and dps is not a either or proposition in 2023.

Paladin dps is so dramatically effected by whether or not our killing spree (blessing of the faithful) is on, that no parse of a paladins dps should exist without also stating whether BOTF was on.
[58383/27537] Blessing of the Faithful XXIV
Classes: PAL/254
Skill: Abjuration
Target: Self
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
Focusable: Yes
Casting: 0s
Duration: 2.6m+ (26 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
4: Increase Hit Damage by 280% (v185)
12: Increase AC by 298 to 394, Based on Class
Text: You receive a blessing of faith.
Book: Utility Beneficial/RuneIncreases base melee damage by 280% and armor class by 4500 points.

I assume everyone understands the relevance of a 280% swing in potential dps.

On a raid, paladins have to fight every other player and pet for a kill shot.
If we do not manage to get one, our dps even while burning is poor. Our dps with sword and board and no BOTF is abysmal.
Every class but clerics should be beating a paladin that is sword and board but no BOTF.

However if it is a straight burn event with easy to kill adds and a paladin happens to be in a dps group and happens to get a BOTF to proc, then they are capable of hitting very good numbers.

I am thrilled that after many years the exploit where a paladin could keep 100% uptime on BOTF is now gone. You're all welcome.

Thank you?

Did I miss something? (probably)

If i still played my paladin i Would have loved to see botf (and the other killing spree buffs) removed and paladins either given a flat boost to melee swing damage or something that boosted yaulp. Same with slay undead. I had a whole strategy set up to maintain botf in my box group, so it had an outsized benefit for me but i dislike it as a mechanic because it's a selfish ability for a selfless class.

Same with

My sarcasm detector twitched slightly and then went silent. Out of order or confused?

Buy the new version / next level of the ability on Beta. For some reason, the old version was not working for me. I submitted a bug report in the Beta forums.

June 21, 2023
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*** Highlights ***


- Player spells that trigger on kills no longer trigger when killing player pets.

Well, it is obvious why BOTF exists in this configuration.
It was given to paladins as a means to improve our quality of life when solo or moloing.
It is undeniably a huge blessing, pun intended, to our quality of life in that area.

There is nothing wrong with BOTF existing in this way.

Unfortunately a few bad faith(again,puns, oi!) actors would make it their mission to show high dps, cherry picked paladin parses anytime it was suggested that paladin dps needed help.
My favorite one was when a paladin parse was shown that was exactly 7 mins on a Shei Vinitras fight.
For those of you that are like "wait a second, 7 minutes is exactly how long a paladin can burn for with Holy Forge and Pure Forge", bingo!
I am sure that the parse in question also included a BOTF exploit since it was on an event where there are not any adds to kill so a paladin couldnt naturally get lucky and get a killshot to trigger BOTF, and the dps number in the parse was high enough to almost certainly require BOTF to be reached.

Conspiracy theory or not, now that the exploit is gone, maybe we can finally get some help on our dps baseline without those bad actors showing ridiculous exploity parses.

You don't need a non-raiding boxer advocating for your class, but I'd contend that if paladin's baseline DPS was anywhere near where I'd put it (which is much higher than it is), the contribution of Blessing of the Faithful and Slay Undead would create massively disproportionate parses that would be an impediment to maintaining baseline paladin DPS. Now, whether DPG designers have tasks like "Look at typical player parses" as part of their budget when they balance or release expansions is a different question.

I haven't solo'd in EQ since 2001 so I'm not going to strongly push my opinion that it doesn't make sense for paladins to have solo-friendly tools from a gameplay or lore perspective. They could make BotF more obviously a solo-tool and only enable it while actually soloing. But that'd be dumb and even more of an anti-paladin ability because it'd motivate the noble paladin into declining a request to group from a player in need.

BOTF is a percentage result, so it could very easily be discontinued without any further upgrades which would allow us to see improvements in baseline.

I mean I moloed shei mission with no bofa proc

Far from the best clear time, but SK are the best DPS in EQ currently, with appropriate ADPS


This is with around 50% Auspice coverage and less than ideal burn syncs and I think a raid missing roughly 2 groups of players

I'm not sure this parse shows what you think it does. SKs ( and War) can do some fantastic DPS under the right conditions, even Pallys can under very specific circumstances. But none of those 3 are the best DPS in game right now, your parse does say your guilds DPS might want to push more buttons.

It's a nameless parse?

What are the right conditions for an SK to do good damage ?

Actually I was thinking more it shows you caster, and DPS aren't doing as much as they could. Obviously I don't know your raid/guild makeup, so I could be making an utter fool of myself, not the first time.

Few DPS hit glyph, even less hit 7th, total of 5 caster in top 20, none in top 10, no mages or Necros, seems odd. 1 Wiz at 13? The Shammy probably could be significantly higher up. Things like that, also it's a parse of Bidilis, says so at top of the parse.

haha, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Whoever is generating this parse data isn't picking up the whole raid data. Just guessing, but a high probability is the SK at the top took the parse.

To see ~75% of a raid's total dps and only contain ~5% contribution from INT casters is your first sign something is off. And your top bard almost beat out the top INT caster (wizard).
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No individual parse is 100% accurate for a whole raid, but If you want a non-biased parse, start by asking a cleric to gather the data. Ideally they are close enough to catch the melee and the casters dps and are less likely to move around during an event. The next thing would be to make sure they have their filters and stuff set correctly.

In this case the parse data is 100% accurate or as close to that as EQ allows you to get. I picked it because you can tuck into a corner and pretty much not have to move the entire fight so it's a good representation of what kind of dps is possible on a mostly single target (+6 jesters) burn can look like over a given time.

Raid comp/class representation wise it's some trials mixed in with some main raiders who went to bed/took the night off so less casters than normal for sure. But for tank data I don't think that really matters especially since on a fight like this are casters parsing in the top spots ? Do you have pics of some more representative parses?