Truebox, does it really help?

Could ask the same question to you since you're making things up to fit your agenda. Truebox hasn't been a choice with the exception of Rizlona. The only reason I chose Aradune was because I once again fell for the marketing bs believing they might actually enforce the rules. As for proof, i'm pretty sure everyone knows that truebox fails and that those that want to cheat will do so without getting punished. We've seen it on every TLP.

wasn't going to post again, but wanted to clarify my personal opinion as it was misconstrued..

I dont think truebox should be outright removed as no one wants to see 12+, 40+ box armies. I think it should be reworked, to target the people getting around it.. If there is no intent to fix the code with people getting around it, an avenue for people to box legitimately should be considered.

Lol, transfer your Aradune guy to Rizlona and go be happy. I don't get your post. The proof is there I'm not making up anything.. Aradune was way more popular then Rizlona up until the next TLP cycle. Aradune still has a healthy population even with two new trueboxing TLPs and like 4 more before it.

Rizlona is the ONLY recent choice for non-truebox and doesnt even maintain high. If Aradune was the ONLY recent truebox the queue to log in would be days.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about and like other people in this thread are making up things to fit their agenda. Truebox isn't perfect by any means but does a great job at curving the amount of mass boxers & cheaters.

It's pretty clear majority of TLP players prefer Truebox. That being said I still think a new non-truebox TLP has its place. Maybe next go around we'll see non-truebox TLP, but I don't think we need one every year or even every other year.

This idea that since a handful of people cheat the system so we should open the flood gates is a joke.

relaxed truebox will not cause more of the 12+ or 30+ megaboxers, since the ones we have weren't deterred to begin with. what it will do, is open those who dont have multiple PCs and don't use the disallowed but unenforced software, to box 2-3.

Unfortunately, Daybreak does not offer options with every generation, so everyone's speculations, especially speculations about who is the majority, are unprovable until they either start, or at least formally poll their community. If I throw my own guess in there about what a professional and secure poll would reveal, the real majority is at least somewhat neutral on the boxing issue, with the rest falling somewhere in a spectrum between the points.

I for one welcome a professional, secure poll, with poll choices properly written by someone who actually understands the issues, in order to determine who is and isn't appropriating things to fit their agenda.

Edit: and preferably a poll that is limited to one vote per credit card in order to minimize the suggestions that a poll is invalid because boxers would win through voting by accounts.

2nd edit: some may wonder why go through all of this? EQ TLP is pretty much the only viable option for many. So making it a gaming experience that actually fits the needs of who is here is certainly a valid thing to do.

So people boxing, who you assumed with no evidence are cheating the system, bothers you so much you want them to change it. By them changing the code it'll likely make it easier to mass multi box. Are you gonna be okay with this outcome, seeing even more boxed toons/armies?

Allowing 3 boxes per PC essentially lets any single boxer have a capable group, if they're smart, which would be able to hold lucrative camps. That is all fine though just because you suspect there are loads of people cheating the Truebox code?

I guess at the end of the day I just don't see the loads of cheaters bypassing the code like you, prolly because I play the game and don't go around investigating Norrath and jumping to assumptions. I honestly think the change you want would only bring more issues and solve nothing.

I guess this is where I disagree. A typical 6 boxer on a truebox TLP, which at this point there are lots of, could now easily become a 3 group raid. In the early expansions this would be super annoying to deal with at camps/epic mobs, as we all know its already annoying with 6 boxers.

I think relaxed truebox is a good answer and the devs are trying to do what they can, but straight up removing it or allowing relaxed truebox in the earlier expansions ain't it.

Assuming there was relaxed or no truebox: Are people really able to control 18 characters effectively without using the assist software that is supposedly not allowed on TLPs? Presumably it would still not be allowed even if truebox was relaxed.

What is your definition of "earlier" expansions?

There is a popular program that allows the sending of keystrokes to all clients, it is used by many and assumed to be safe to use, so yes. The fact that you asked this shows you don't know the consequences that will rise from what you're asking to be changed.

I think around 70 like the Devs planned to do is about right for relaxed truebox. Might be a tad early, but overall it'll prolly be fine by this point.

I know exactly what program it is, and it is my assumption it is NOT allowed. If it is in fact allowed on TLP when they said it wasn't, allowing third party assists is your real problem, not box limitations. Edit: and if the disallowance of that program was limited to a server of a past TLP generation and didn't continue to the more recent TLPs, same issue.

The question I'm actually asking is whether people can effectively box 18 without that third party program.

We'll sadly I won't be able to answer that as I don't box that many. The people I have seen boxing that many seemed to have no issues though.

Your solution is pretty funny though. Lets allow people to box more and get rid of truebox, which clearly is deterring lots of people since so many are wanting it gone, and then we'll blame third party programs instead. Great solution.

Doesn't Truebox already deter one popular third party program from even firing up? All you're asking for is more cheating and more boxes.

If someone isn't using an input cloning solution (or a hardware switch that does the same thing), I don't see how they could issue unique commands to 18 different accounts effectively.

But let's assume for the moment that 3rd party software that facilitates actually using multiple accounts (whether trueboxed or more than one per PC) is not the problem, and that the problem is only whether you can use more than one account per PC. If that's the case, it's just a pay2win scenario, where paying means paying for multiple PCs. Since apparently the software that actually makes controlling all those PCs isn't actually the facilitator here.

If something is going to be pay2win you'd think the developers would want the paying to go them and not PC manufacturers, but maybe not -

How many computers can actually run on a standard residential electrical circuit without the breakers going nuts?

The issue was the large boxers taking over camps or even whole zones. Without some regulation by DPG those boxers would drive a large part of a TLP population away. True box is far from perfect but combined with some enforcement it limits most large box armies to hiding in instances. Without true box, some other limiting rules and more active enforcement would be required. If the boxing rules were just dropped, we would have large armies with the associated egos running rampant over the TLP.

That's what I would term an idealistic position.
As in "in an ideal world"....

Pragmatically-speaking Truebox is a disincentive that does mostly dissuade or inconvenience the casual boxers & the avowed mega-boxers will continue to abuse the "spirit" of Truebox because they can make more profit on a Truebox server than on a boxing server - but still, the overall result is a sum-total of less boxed groups on the server regardless of high-minded principles of fairness.

That's why I think Truebox is "doing something useful" up until PoP - there is still a very healthy pick up grouping scene until then that largely makes Boxing a far less "needed" activity.

After PoP, or at least once the following year's TLP opens, Truebox is "doing something harmful". I think the Relaxed Truebox of Yelinak & Vaniki is the "best case scenario" we can practically & affordably reach that maximises the benefits and minimises the harms, even if it is not ideal.

Did phinny have queues for days when it was in DoDH? I guess to be fair there were other truebox TLPs by that point. How about when it was in PoP? Agnarr, the 2nd Truebox TLP, was announced Apr 18 2017 and launched May 24 2017. Phinny unlocked PoP/Loy Feb 1 2017 and LDoN Apr 26 2017. So prior to Agnarr did Phinny have queues as the only Truebox TLP while there were at least 2 boxing TLPs (Ragefire/Lockjaw)?

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ession-server-coming-weds-may-24-2017.239813/

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Progression_Servers_Phinigel

Nothing to add, I just couldn't help myself.

I play EQ to play with other people too. Nice to be on the same page.

There's a big difference between hitting the buttons on six characters and hitting the buttons on 18. You aren't running three groups without some software assistance. Maybe 18 mages but not a real, effective raid with tanks, healers, cc and dps.

I doubt DPG allowing relaxed truebox will lead to a lot of people using M Q that aren't currently. I think your six boxers that are actually hitting their keys themselves will still mostly just box six, just using two computers instead of six.

Truth is there isn't a good solution. A lot of people want a no boxing at all experience ( I would like to experience this at least once without having to play p99 and get arthritis from clicky spam.)

However, the fact is once a no boxing server dies, it's going to die really hard.

It's just not realistic to appease all people, so true box servers.... kind of does that. If you played on the original TLPs you'd remember the rampant macro mage groups. It was just so easy to operate and set up.

Obviously it doesn't stop the same people who RMT out of their minds year after year ( whales gonna whale after all.) They aren't stopping those types in other games either. The best thing they could do is lower the appeal. Maybe if TLPs didn't allow krono trading, it might help, not eliminate obviously, but who knows. Probably wouldn't help lol.

Ultimately, I'm pretty ok with how the past few servers have been. I wish they'd put more effort into making life hard for the main players that are playing exclusively to appeal to whales. I doubt that will ever happen.