Can we finally fix Rogues and Rangers? Thanks!

Current glaring issue with the following are exacerbated on TLPS:
-Rogues are garbage until Velious/Luclin
-No reason to roll a Ranger until POP when their bread and butter, bows, become viable.

Rogues are supposed to be "the" melee dps, but haven't been for a very long time. Most people who are rogue mains end up waiting to roll their dream class until literally almost a year that a server has been out because of glaring inconsistencies with the meta of monk/mage/necro/wiz that has existed on TLPs since their inception.

There's no excuse for keeping this meme around anymore. You're making active nerfs to many classes now, but not bringing much-needed balance in the form of buffs for others.

Instead of nerfing classes can we see positive change in future patches?

Rogue damage tables, and miss chances for backstab, need to be looked at.

Ranger bow damage needs to have a look into making them viable pre-POP. There's ZERO reason, other than for nostalgia purposes, to roll a Ranger pre-POP. (very similar to Rogue issues).

I don't play either, but i'm sick of these two classes being treated poorly when played in guilds/raids.

Thanks!!

You're not very good at the game are you?

If you're disagreeing with an obvious fact then you might need to re-read what you just posted, but to yourself, and aloud .

You're not understanding how this works. They're just going to keep nerfing other classes till eventually Rangers and Rogues are almost viable.

You know what's sad? That actually makes sense, and the trends they're making seem to support your statement far more than anything else.

Is that sad?

1. Classic is laughably easy already, not really sure what your point is here.
2. Rangers and Rogues do a substantial amount of damage already, but are gear intensive.
3. Rangers are on par with Paladins and SKs for group tanking, infact they lead the other 2 tanks in raw aggro capability and have many other tricks.

IF you had ever checked parses yourself, or played these classes with any amount of know how. You would KNOW that the only thing wrong with rogues is that monks are overpowered (monks shouldn't be nerfed either....maybe a little...like have mend have a 5% chance to cause damage regardless of skill /s)

1. If that were true then why don't more people roll rogues and rangers, and why are those two classes scoffed at or asked to reroll to "more useful classes" for raids?
2. See point #1
3. Rangers are no where NEAR Paladins or SKs for "group tanking", and just because they have a snare they can spam doesn't make them "good tanks". There's a reason they're a joke to raid leaders with regards to surviveability. If your group tank is a ranger then you might as well ask your enchanter to tank for the group.

Well most guilds recruit rangers & rogues on TLPs. From the top 1% guilds down to the casual guilds. What kind of respect do you want? Do you want to sit LFG during prime time and be bugged for groups?

Also rogues and rangers are "viable" they always were. I think they need some buffs, but saying they need it for "classic" is silly. Rangers and rogues both keep getting better after each xpac.

Edit - Rogues and rangers have never been asked to reroll in any guild I've ever been in over 3 TLPs now. In fact it's usually raids irked that they don't have any rogues and rangers playing.

Live changes made melee dps much higher on TLP than it ever was back in the day on classic-PoP, Monks benefited too much from those changes, Rogues benefited the least, hence the dps hierarchy was shifted, Rogues didn't lose anything, they gained but Monks just got lucky due to how their class's melee works.

Further changes will be needed to melee if the MoTM buff is ever to be removed or altered to only penalise the pet-walls unless changes to pet mechanics negate that.

Rangers being bad until PoP is complete & utter crap, they just got such an amazing DPS bump with PoP bows (being able to be obtained via crafting was the major thing) that the assumption became they should always have been that good - you are just plain wrong.

Good god, people DO roll Rogues and Rangers.
But because there are so many mindless lemmings like you spouting all sorts of garbage about them being bad it scares people off from the class. I've never once in my ENTIRE EQ career seen someone ask a ranger or rogue to reroll a "more useful class". I think you summed up the reasoning though, you yourself admit you have NEVER played either one, but you don't like them being crapped on.

News Flash: Actual rangers and rogues are not on the forums crying.

Your response to #3 shows how little you know, (Hint, snare is not how Rangers maintain aggro, it can, but its not as good as another spell they have). Rangers have the defensive cap of other tanks, they wear the same armor leveling up (hint, banded is banded, you're not softcapping AC in classic). They're very easy to heal and even on raids they can offtank just fine. It isn't until Luclin rolls around that they start to suffer in this area on TLPs.

For the record, I lvl'd to 50 in the first 5 days of Aradune with both a Ranger and Rogue in our static (although the Rogue ghosted us about halfway through). We were fine and it wasn't as bad as most people portray it to be, just most people aren't playing their classes to the best of their abilities. Wizards properly utilizing rains for mana efficiency also are solid for groups, but have a bad rap with afk wizards.

There is exactly 1 situation where I would prefer having a Rogue over a Monk or Ranger, and that is only the Folly of Miragul's Ambition raid in LDoN. And I only need 1 of them for that.

Rangers can tank group content pretty damn well. Even back in the day they could. You don't even need great gear, I was in banded till my late 40's. I died once near 50 and that's because our healer was busy doing a trade.

Guess you've never done the LDoN raid, synacara? you need rogues to pickpocket a mob to clear the all the Red DT skellies. You need a rogue to pickpocket the mob in ikky raid #4. And to paraphrase Star Trek, Rogues can boldly go where no other class can go.

In TBS on phinny, I tanked and dps'd the final fight for monk 2.0 with a cleric and his low level box monk.

If we all actually wanted a classic experience, wouldn't that be the more honest approach?

I've never seen anyone asked to re-roll away from rogue or ranger. I've seen people asked to re-roll TO rogue though. It kinda sucks when you don't have one or 2 on a raid with trap/lock mechanics, and they're great for wipe recovery.

Actually a Ranger is one of the first characters I create on a TLP. I recently posted a link to videos I took of my ~level 20<?> at the time Ranger taking down an even con and a red. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/solo-ranger-question.267322/#post-3938129
Rangers are slow killers compared to a Wizard<for instance> by design. Rangers are bad tanks compared to plate wearing classes like even Clerics and Bards. They are better tanks then most magic users w/o some form of extra protection, again by design.

IDK, I worry more about the powers that be thinking Rangers are to strong then I do they aren't strong enough. Understand too that the rumors of lack of viability for Rangers is something I have been trying to quell for going on 20 years now. I was recently in a leveling group with a level 50ish Ranger that was using a bow and NO ONE in the GROUP COMPLAINED! I see this as a big win for the player base getting more knowledgeable about how to properly equip characters and run them. It felt good.

I could give you a run down on my current Ranger on Rizlona, mostly in tattered with a personally made bow. Once again, I mostly use summoned arrows from my magician because they hit magic and are +3. I like boxing the Ranger with my Magician because in early TLP<which is the forum we are in> the Magician does not have anything but Burnout and fire shields for their pet. Ranger can buff the pet with AC and DEX. Later on, spells like Riftwind's protection stack, Flame Lick & Stinging Swarm debuff, and you can't forget Snare and Roots. The heals a Ranger bring to the table reduce the down time. Weak heals compared to a Cleric of course, much better then no heals.

This.

I've see Rogues easily keep up with monk with the right gear.