Charm is too strong

Everyone was saying that mage pet armies were ruining the game. If you don't like a mage pet army, don't play one. Was anyone holding a gun to your head and making you?

Max: “I keep trying to pick Ranger, Joe, but when I get to character select the game has always made my toon an enchanter instead! Are you having the same problem?”

Joe: “Not quite! I wanted to be a shadowknight but it says since you’re playing an enchanter I have to be a cleric!”

Gnot - Mage pet armies were griefing the server by killing open world targets without the boss even engaging the mages because they were standing behind walls. There were no AoCs at the time. It’s not even the same ballpark.

If they had released aocs and truebox with the fippy/vulak launch they probably wouldn't have needed to nerf mage pets, actually.

Is truebox something you're for or against? It seems like you guys would be against it for limiting how you're able to play.

Because they like to release a new server and everyone who RMT’s for a living have to jump ship. Really plenty of guilds keep raiding after PoP, all the “the servers die” is overblown.

Another logical reason is it’s almost 2 years from launch to GoD...that’s a decently long time for a lot of people. Lots of people quit over that time not just magically after they clear Time. Then DBG announces a new server and ohhh my nostalgia.

Yea, that’s honestly a long time to play any game.

Not true at all! The change in Omens to charm was an overreaction by the devs when adjusting the power level of charm. Should it have been nerfed that hard? Absolutely not! That isn't what people are arguing here. People are arguing that charm, during the classic eras, needs a SMALL adjustment to help BALANCE it with other classes in the group setting. NOBODY is saying to nerf it into oblivion like they did in Omens. You must have PTSD from that Omens nerf because you ASSUME that the devs, if they made any change, would DESTROY it's viability. These are different devs. If anything these devs take a much more calculated approach to changes in the game now. They don't really make one giant change and let their Egos run rampant and refuse to re-tune as needed.

See above.

That literally is the biggest draw for cramming your group with 2-3 charm classes. You are trying to camp as much loot / xp mobs as you can. And if you can grab xp mobs in a wider radius using more charm classes, then people will be scrambling all over themselves to do so. To assume that this isn't the satus quo is asinine. If you didn't see it constantly, you had blinders on.

Solo xp is nerfed into the ground. So no, you DON'T get decent XP solo chain charming anymore.

Necros get ONE, count it, ONE Feign Death spell until Velious at 60. Feign Death has a recast rate of 9 seconds. Lets hear that again, 9 seconds! You don't Feign when your pet breaks, you attempt to mez it, once or twice and recharm. You ATTEMPT to FD when those options fail. You fail FD and chances are, your dead. Side benefit: the other group members get a front row seat watching the necro do the funky chicken running around in circles trying to avoid their impending doom.

Mages are somewhat to blame for their predicament going back as early as 1999. In early 99, a pet's attack delay could be lowered if you gave it a lower delay weapon(FS daggers anyone?). Necros used this to their advantage and dominated the vast majority of the groupable camps in Guk - SOLO. The mages were upset and took to the boards. In their fervent attempt to get necro pets nerfed, because "they shouldn't be as strong as mage pets", they managed to get both necros and THEMSELVES nerfed when the devs eliminated the delay lowering properties of pet equipped weapons. That is a representation of changes the OLD devs made back then. Thank god we have devs now that don't adjust with a hammer.

Other group members should be taunting, healing, stunning, snaring, rooting, etc. to make sure no one dies when a charm fails. If they don’t then it’s time to find actual players to group with.

well if you have tried it on the TLP's you will know it is nothing like original, the raids were revamped/retuned, bugs fixed and what not and it was some of the most fun raids in EQ running through them on Phinny

so we have moved on from buggy and unplayable and untuned to well tuned, fun and very playable... and we have stopped living in the past and moved on

That might be a fun group dynamic for some people but I find that to be a problem. People are grouping to support a charm pet while it does insane damage and carries you. If it was a huge burden to have something so strong I would understand. But it's basically free.

The tanks role goes from tanking and holding agro on mobs to just auto attacking and taunting the charm pet when it breaks. Healers are just mainly healing an NPC. I'm pretty sure the term CharmQuest describes it most accurately. That's what you're getting as the lvl experience from Classic-PoP. Enjoy

People say lowering the damage isn't enough. I think it might be. Sure if you're duoing you can have it tank get to low health then kill it but it costs mana to break charm, re trash, and re charm a different pet. In a full group setting I don't think it's going to be the one tanking which is huge. It gives Enchanters good damage from a charm pet, when it breaks it's going to hit you for full damage. It adds less reward with no change in the risk(which isn't much anyway).

I’m pretty confident you have never played a (good) cleric, even in a group with charm if you think all we do is Cheal the charm pet. Which in itself is mostly a waste of time, kill the pet and charm another mob. Most your time is spent buffing and healing your other group members (shocker). You can even contribute to DPS with summon hammers and pets, undead nukes (will put you at/near top DPS at certain camps), regular nukes, AoEs, stuns, root, etc. If your group members are sitting on their a** doing nothing, the problem is your group. But maybe when you only group with your 5 other boxes their maximum contribution is soaking XP.

I box a cleric almost every server. And when I'm CHing a rock golem in hole for 8 hours that's not fun. sorry try again bud. But i'm glad you just added to my point for another way to play CharmQuest.

Edit: You just changed your post. Changing the subject from Charm being overpowered to Cleric gameplay and my ability to play one. Maybe stay on topic and give some input about charm, not how you think a Cleric should be played in a group.

So you box clerics and play them poorly, good to know. No wonder your groups by yourself are so boring.

Why is CHing a player tank for 8 hours in the hole more fun than CHing a charm pet?

Also it costs zero mana to break charm with an invis clicky or worst case an instant cast potion.

I don't box more than 2 ever. Please stay on topic.

It’s not, if all you do is CHeal on a cleric you will be bored out of your mind.

Yeah and you can also tell the group you find healing charmed pets boring and would prefer not to, or form your own group and not invite an enchanter, or form your own group with a chanter but send them a tell and ask them if you could change things up a little because you are bored. Or you can box your own enchanter and use it to buff and CC only and not invite another enchanter in case they might insist on charming.

You have options that don’t require a nerf to deal with this issue. Yes you are allowed to be bored with charm.

Where have you actually shown that an ench (who is fully using their toolkit) actually makes the contributions of the 5 other players meaningless (who should also be fully using their toolkits). That’s your basis of “they are so OP they are broken”, so show us the parses.

Yes let me not partake in the most overpowered aspect of the game whilst everyone else is abusing it. All you keep saying is "if you dont like it don't group with charm pets". That's the DUMBEST thing I've seen on these forums. That's your "fix". They are overpowered so don't group with them. LOL.

Sikkun I'm also done with you as well. Guess you're just delusional if you need parses of a charm pet beating people in DPS. Rather agree to disagree and leave it at that.