No, that's the point people are trying to make. It's not bannable to KS and run boxed mage groups to take over camps/zones. It's not illegal to charm gate mob spawns which KS'es someone elses kill. It's all competitive gaming and competitive spawns. There are no camps. It's a DPS race. Players need to resolve their own issues about spawns. However its illegal to train a player to get them killed. This is according to DBG.
It is really ashame CS won't do anything on these easily policeable HIGHLY toxic issues. Nobody is asking them to govern guild wide open world rotations. But basic CS ensuring people are not harassed griefed is the least they could do.
if the bot/box army trains people in order to take a camp (happens quite a bit), it absolutely is bannable.
There are two sides to these issues. First in force or first to engage become downright toxic in practice at a raid level, as guilds sit on mobs that have not spawned yet and decide a winner based on garbage like the fastest to throw stone. All the awful drama that surround dps racing in raids doesn't hold a candle to how scummy is. For camps, likewise, there are again 2 sides here. We had a guild on fippy lose arbitration over CT and proceed to camp him for the ENTIRE respawn cycle. And they did. I loved soloing fear and no matter when I stepped in, they were there, and at least one of em attentive! At a group level, guilds on combine regularly monopolized camps by just rotating pals in and out so nobody could touch it. You think its bad that a 24/7 crew can dps race your camp, but who in the world do you think would win if there was a no camp stealing rule? You have to sleep, they don't, and they can assuredly rotate farmers and toons around to deal with whatever rules are needed for a monopoly. Sure many parts of this sucks and things are not perfect, but try not to pretend too hard that things were somehow magically perfect in the past. Many of these policy changes are truly responses to negatives rather than lax concern or lazy staffing. Training has no upsides. Automation has no upsides. These rules are still enforced not because its easier or whatever, but because there is NOT something toxic that results if you take them away, like camp monopolies or fif do.
Yeah, thats monopolizing a camp, but why that camp? They got so up in their feelz the **entire** guild camped CT the **entire** respawn time? That means more spawns open in the rest of the world. You guys can keep CT. Make sure he doesnt duke on the rug, or if he does, please clean it up. He's your dog now. I call it player crowd control. heh
This was pre-motm. A few groups can kill anything. They were perfectly capable of rotating an in force presence without compromising on being able to contest (petition+roll until the kunark rules) anything else. And that was just an extreme example. What if they merely arrived 3 hours before his spawn window, still camped? In window but not spawned, camped? What about at a group level - if I make a handful of mages and put at least 1 at every frenzy camp, can I just claim it as long as I don't pass out? What if I let a buddy take over while I sleep then come back when they sleep and we never ever leave? If you answer no monopolizing, how do you categorize or enforce - do we both park on a camp and go every other, or is there an appropriate time? Let's say 8 hours is the max before sharing for example, can someone at gimblox for 8 hours and no spawn be accused of monopolizing, or what if I am at AM for 8 hours but never get my robe do I still need to leave? They sound like ridiculous and absurd one offs, and they kind of are, but they ended up happening SO MUCH that we got the current hands off policy in reaction and frankly, even though I personally call camp checks and back off peoples nameds, I much prefer it now to what fippy etc were.
Yep, we basically had PetitionQuest and now we have DPS-RaceQuest and KronoQuest. The camp check method has always been a community etiquette thing. Its less community enforceable against people with multiple full box groups. This entire issue is a main reason why the vast majority of MMOs have either instanced content, or everyone gets a loot roll on every chest/corpse, or both.
Agreed. So it's okay to steal a mob that someone has already engaged, but it's not okay to train someone. Both are griefing. One form of griefing and ruining someone's experience is okay, the other is not. LOL. Okay. So I have a question for DBG. Since you say camps aren't recognized and it's a dps-race, what if a player followed me around for 6 hours and any time I tried to get some xp, they KS'd me allowing me to get nothing. This is ok too, right? I mean it's free-game, dps-race, no camps....right?
This has happend the other day on a TLP. It was in an empty zone, a guildie was minding his own business when a wizard showed up and followed the guildmate, killing everything in sight. The guildmate couldnt out dps the wiz and was forced to leave. There was no chatting, no bickering, they didnt even know each other and havent exchanged any tells. The wiz came out of nowhere and started this stupid behavior.
This is so toxic. I mean at this point, they would do justice just making it full blown PVP and let people fight over camps.
I could see at the lowest of levels giving some benefit of the doubt and considering maybe the person didn't know they were doing anything wrong, but past a certain point that's just trolling behavior and shouldn't be permitted.
it's not training if you're just helping someone pull by bringing half the zone to them. they clearly can't find anything else to fight if they're stealing mobs from you, so help them until they're satisfied and leave
The only rational think I can think of is a) he was clearing the zone so he could warp around or b) he was about to AE the zone and didnt want you getting in the way and reporting him for training. Either way unacceptable. Charm gating isnt allowed. But the enforcement has been inconsistent. I saw this on coirnav with efreeti PH and some times people got in trouble for charm gating a place holder and hiding it in the zone (chinese do this!)
Camp check is only good for players who respect camps . I was pulling for a group in unrest at bottom floor and grabbed some mobs from 2nd floor , did this for 2hrs then some guy who must’ve just joined Fireplace group tells me “stop stealing his mobs .” I replied they aren’t your mobs and I had been killing then for 2 hrs . He said I will get banned for kill stealing . I called his bluff and told him Feel free to petition me for kill stealing your ghoul and try to get me banned . He then says “All im asking you politely would you not mind pulling from top floor . In which I replied “ you never asked me politely you accused me of theft and threatened to try and get me banned.” All this over a level 30 Ghoul that wasnt even named . Anyways being the I am I pulled the entire top 2 floors all at once to prove camps don’t mean anything unless you respect each other and you need to earn respect not demand it.
I mostly play on a low pop server so people tend to notice and remember stuff like that and seem to just refuse to group with the KS jerks. Do the raid guilds or guilds in general care about that behavior or try self policing it in their ranks, or do they tend to be the offenders on TLP?
