Seriously, don't make a rogue.

The design of the rogue was fine. They had plenty of utility as the dungeon scout. When it actually mattered to get your corpses, rogues were loved. It isn't the design of the rogue that is flawed, it is the demand by the player base to not have corpse runs that made rogues so devalued. I used to make money in dungeons back in the day just from dragging corpses and helping groups or raids with wipes. The design of the rogue was perfect for the original intent of the game. But now since no one wants to have penalties for deaths and wipes, rogues are considered simply dps. So sure, as just a dps "machine" they are poorly designed. That wasn't what they were designed to be though. They still remain the best class for scouting a dungeon since they have invis to everything, can detect and disarm traps (yeah I know, they are rare) and pick locks. Rogues are great for tagging mobs to be lulled or pacified. Rogues are great in assisting with split pulling. And rogues are still great for those times when you get trained at your camp but you have a smart rogue that hides between pulls, didn't get aggro and can help with dragging corpses to get rezzed for a quick reset of the camp. on the class all you want but it is still my favorite class to play and still has the single most OP power in classic.

That's not what I read. If you like playing a rogue and play a rogue well, then play a rogue. Avoiding inviting someone from a specific class is stupid.

This thread could have been kept short just by pointing out that the reasoning of "not playing a rogue on Mangler" is because there won't be augments. Playing a rogue on Selo's was also not addressed...as there will be augments and AA's and epics available from day 1.

Coirnav was my first TLP and first time playing since like 2004. I do not have experience passed level 20. Rogue was the super wrong choice for me in classic. RIP at level 14.

I agree that a rogue is the weakest class you could make in classic, and the most challenging. if you've pre-joined a guild, and they're making levelling groups in advance, I don't see the issue. You'll hit 50 in your group, at worst 5 or 10% slower then a group that send a mage in your place.

You will be a class without a ton of competition for rogue loots, so getting your planar weapons, haste belt, and armor will be somewhat easier.

Your utility will raise dramatically in Kunark with a high number of locked doors you can't illusion through anymore, and your DPS will go up a lot with your super easy epic, Ragebringer.

A 50 rogue with better then FBSS haste and planar weapons will put a lot more damage than an ungeared melees(naked monk might still beat ya), so if you just wanna grind for plat in the Hole or something, you'll have a place in most groups.

tldr; The OP is right, rogues are underpowered in classic and even beyond. However, you can still make it work if you want, it won't be impossible if you have a guild. If you're on your own, then OPs points are spot on. Just don't do it.

How about you just don't invite people who steal regardless of class. I've never stolen from my group even though I've leveled four rogues to 60+. I don't think I've ever run into such a prejudiced and bigoted EQ player before.

So, if you want a challenge, make a rogue? Wasn't mangler supposed to be more challenging anyway? So really, maybe change the topic to something like "If you want easy mode, don't make a rogue"?

How would I know, you can do it secretly...

Bigoted towards your terrible choice of class that effects everyone you're with? Please.

I mean the literally never invite a rogue that you don't know thing is a little strong but if you don't know any of the players why would anyone choose a rogue over a different dps class in classic?

It's pretty hilarious to hear someone on eq all fury and worry about rogues because there's some small chance they may steal a few coins when in fact the far more likely thing to happen is someone just rolls in and takes your whole camp lol. I can see the exchange now, dude is in group accusing the rogue of stealing and mage/nec rolls in and takes camp.

Rogues are not bad in Classic if you have gear. Leveling a rogue on a fresh server with no gear at launch is dead weight. Unless you have friends to help you group to 50. Any group rushing to 50 or looking for efficient exp will not invite a rogue sadly.

Once you get some Hate gear, a haste item like CoF. Add in a few raid daggers and you will be holding your own for dps on raids. Until all that i mentioned. Damage will be lacking

More that they bring nothing BUT theft. The bringing nothing is the bigger annoyance. Also maybe our camp wouldn't be stolen if we had real dps...

No... A Ranger, monk, mage, necro, enchanter, shaman, druid, stack of misty thicket picnic baskets will all out dps a rogue.

A cleric will out dps a rogue on an undead.

I'm kinda bewildered by this whole topic, it's pretty idiotic. I haven't played rogue past maybe 40ish because I prefer casters but from my experience grouping with all classes, many times, all melees except monks are weak choices for fast xp groups and what's so funny about this topic is that (with equal gear), rogue is actually a better choice (assuming you already have a tank) than any other melee for efficient xping because with equally crap gear they will do more damage. How exactly do you think groups fill? Are you thinking you're playing wow and the game is just going to auto find all the right classes for your group?

They're filled with things that arent rogues? Obviously?? I swear melees have no idea how the game works sometimes.

Bard, cleric, 2+ enchanters, maloer, caster dps.

Maybe a monk as a dps or a ranger/whatever to pull.

You always one melee DPS in a group or else you run into mana issues and long down time. Mana regen is so low in Classic that no caster can reliably DPS for an extended period of time if you are chain pulling.

Actually you added a lot of dead weight to your group there by your own logic. It should be nothing but mages/enc + 1 cleric. Everything else is dead weight. A cleric and 5 enc or mages destroys pretty much everything with almost no chance of wipe. Don't really see any room for bard or any shm or melees at all. Encs take turns pulling, done. Non-boxed nothing is going to come close to 5 enc + 1 cleric. My point is that unless you have that dream group, in which you yourself have to also be playing either clr/mag/enc, all other classes are only going to be a marginally different so everyone should just play what they want and group up, including rogues.

Never mind. Realized you are just a troll. Guess people are getting anxious waiting on the new servers to go live.

having a normal one in an iyvy thread

Make a rogue, just because it annoys Iyvy.

I main a rogue, I'm always second or third DPS on raids, behind a monk and a zerker. and have been consistently second or third since GoD.So don't worry about what people on the forums say, Classic, and Kunark are both gross and boring. Rogues are just fine, though I'd like to see piercers reworked in Classic to OoW to be more in line with other weapons now that backstab damage is a thing, and not based off of the normal damage.

I will definitely have a rogue to pop the frog traps in PoEarth for the Earth Elemental Illusion. Maybe not main it this time (like on Fippy), but definitely have a rogue.