Seriously, don't make a rogue.

DPS ceases to become a factor if you're in a populated zone, like lguk, where there's downtime because the group has killed all of that camp's mobs. If you have access to an unlimited source of mobs then sure, you'll want to take advantage of that with the most effective classes. But of the three TLP's I've played in the last 2-3 years that never happened, at least in Classic/Kunark/Velious. Past that, though, I don't think Rogues are as far behind the DPS curve as they were in classic. At that point a well geared rogue will be on the higher end.

They are quite bad early on, and never really shine.

I love Rogue. Done rogue on 2 TLPs. But sitting it out this time. There simply isn't a good reason to play one with monk available. There isn't anything a rogue is needed for that another class can't do as good or better, besides sitting around invis wishing they were a class that could kill the mobs they are sneaking past.

Rogues pick locks better than any class. I remember on previous TLPs being asked constantly to come to Seb once Kunark opened assuming my pick lock was high enough to open the doors there. I also found myself doing lots of scouting in places like Lguk. Sure you can do a CC to find the camps but a rogue sneaking around making sure the camp actually has a group at it killing mobs is better. I also love getting to camp spots before the rest of the group and holding it when CC's are called. Rogues can also make recoveries from wipes faster, thereby increasing your XP/hr. Sure, if you are pefect and never get trained or over pull then that won't mater to you. However, I remember groups being very glad I was around on previous TLPs when grinding in Lguk or the Hole.

Thing is, no one cares about picking locks "better". you just get the bard to do it and your group is stronger. I really like rogue, but it is, in all honesty, one of the worst classes in terms of power and usefulness in the game.

LOL @ "the bard" as if there are bards waiting on standby to grab instead of a rogue. But also, bard's lockpick cap is lower so there are times where yes, you need a rogue.

I agree that the rogue is less useful in the current iteration of EQ. I disagree that they were like that in the original game. It isn't the rogue that has become useless. It is EQ players that wanted to make them useless by getting rid of corpse runs.

There is nothing anytime soon that a bard cant lockpick that a rogue can.

I still think rogues are fine in 99% of situations (the only time they arent is if you have a 3 enchanter group and an ENTIRE ZONE to yourself.)

Isn't there a door in Karners that is higher than bard cap in era? Could be wrong, might be that the bard I was with in that group just hadn't trained up to his cap.

We had a bard in our team on phinigel and never found a door he couldnt pick.

Well I know this much. If you are looking for a bard or a rogue for your 6th so you can have a door picked, which class is more likely to be available to grab for the group?

Just grab a real DPS and pay the rogue 200 PP to come pick the lock for you.

How long you expect that rogue to sit there picking that lock while you pull through it for 200pp?

I expect them to pick the lock, then I kill the things on the other side. Not many camps that need you to open the door more than once. So if that is what you are hedging your rogue bets on... well... Seriously, don't make a rogue.

Not really sure how good a rogue was in 1999 has to do with wanting them in your group in current TLP content. I'm not as extreme about as some people, but if you could pick between a rogue and some other dps class what's the real upside to taking the rogue unless he was specifically asking to pull or something.

I was going to answer but then the part about pulling started to nag at me. What do you mean by "specifically asking to pull"?

If a rogue or whatever class really is willing to do the pulling that adds a lot of value to that particular player. Early EQ is easy enough nobody really does splits stuff on regular trash. But if they're just staying in camp and dpsing, then you'd generally be better off with basically any other dps class.

Not too many times have I declined to pull somewhere when asked. Bottom of Lguk is the only real place I can think of due to the ghoul roots. Do you have a lot of rogues decline to pull when asked in your experience?

Bards can pick everything rogues can, and can get to you to unlock for you much faster. When I need a lockpick i search for a bard, generally. I suppose sneaking to chardok royals door? is sorta useful?

There hasn't been anything my rogue could pick that a bard couldn't . And bards can CC, pull, slow and give amazing regen and stat bonuses.

Rogue availability isn't an argument for their usefullness, especially with how few rogues are typically played. The fact that they are extremely unpopular and still in LFG, is a sign of just how little use they are.

The few, the proud, the Rogue!!!

Best class in EQ.

After reading through this thread, perhaps the hardcore server should have required you to level a rogue to max level before unlocking the enchanter class on character creation. Imagine the initial rush to 50 with no clarity or charm pets.