This might be what he/she is saying It was planned to revamp all DoT classes since a primary issue was(and still is) raid boss buff slots are limited and many times filled. Most other classes are done. Bravo! Next up (according to Devs) is the necro! (yay!?). It's simple...roughly take the last 3 versions of a DoT line, add em up, and voila!! You have a new necro DoT line. Simple!! Except...well.........if necro DoTs were revamped in a similar manner to priest classes....we necro's would be an extremely OP massive beast that would do a disproportionate amount of dmg to boss mobbies! And..well......I'm TOTALLY cool with that...cept.....the parse (damned thing!). The parse would show a necro doing 3x of any other class maybe? Is this gonna fly? Nope. No way it will fly! Now what we gonna do? We gonna stand pat and continue to have buff slot issues on raids? We gonna let the necro be virtually useless in group content? I dunno! But I doubt it. The solution? A revamp of necro DoTs so that less buff slots are used. Obviously these DoTs will need to be more powerful. Just not as powerful as some priestly toons are now. When this happens the Devs will say..."maaaaan........these necroids are doing about the same amount of DPS of a well played priestly class.....cept they can't buff others nor can they heal like beasts! Sumthin's gotta go!" Inevitably the priestly classes will prlly get whacked upside the head with a Nerf Bat (yes, the soft trademarked named kind so it wont leave too large of a welt). Full Disclosure: I'm all for leaving priestly classes the way they are. I'm willing to roll a Drood and provide leet Skins for everyone, heal and still wreck the parse! Gimme a bard/chanter combo and we'll soar to previously unconquered grounds with ease! I will be sad that I must no longer main my necroid. Was just something cool about toon. Anyway....I got off track maybe? Yes? Ooops!
There is a discussion about this going on in beta right now. Get in there and drop your feedback. So far zero word from the devs on the matter at all. Likely they won't comment and if they are considering doing this it will be once tuning starts. If there hasn't been any feedback or changes to necro dots by then and well its not happening during RoS beta and you are going to see a lot of unhappy people as this would be pushed to a few months into 2018 if at all. Just to get a sense of how much worse its getting necros best on demand raid dot is 5k their best swift dot would be 11k, shaman have multiple 20k raid dots, enchanters have a 35k raid dot and druids will have multiple 20k raid dots and the top dot ever at a 52k base (yes the one thats modified by Chromatic Haze). If dot stuff remains like that at launch then guilds should be recruiting priests to put in adps groups with bards and enchanters and they would dwarf what most dps classes are capable off. Its not hyperbole. Druids, shamans, enchanters and even tanks are already at the point on live of having the capability of beating a necromancer in dps in a group setting. If this goes live as it stands on beta and it would be possible on raids as well. Necros SHOULD be giving up multiple dot debuff slots and adps groups to these classes because of the gains they are getting relative to necromancers. Their potential when played as a dps class would exceed anything a necromancer could do when played as a dps class.
You can’t just look blindly at base dot values you have to consider all other tools the necro has versus priest classes. I do however agree that the necro should see their revamp ASAP as that has been a promise for literally several years now and it shouldn’t be drawn out any more. If anything they’ve made previous classes that never casted their dots now do it and the debut slot issue has only increased. Now if any, Necros need this big time. Also, it would be time to dial back priest damage. (Minus clerics, who could actually use dps love imo)
Such as... *Taking longer to ramp up dps. *No longer being able to heal a group in any meaningful manner. *Not being able to cast meaningful group buffs. *Not providing group adps. Seriously, DoT ramp time has a huge effect on true necro dps. The Karzok is the only event this expansion where a necro can sustain a burn. No clearing trash for 10 minutes, no hitpoint locks every 30s, and the bosses live longer than a 60s ramp up time.
(Passives) ...................Necro .......Ench ........Dru ........Shm Destructive Cascade ....375% .......375% .......375% ......375% Critical Affliction ........61+18% ......33% ........55% .........55% Mirrored Pestilence .......7% ............0 ............0 ............7% Lingering Death ...........6 tics ........2 tics ......2 tics .......4 tics These are the main passive AA lines that effect DoTs with corresponding Beta values. Some of these AAs are listed under a different name for different classes. The enchanter's Twincast aura provides a better chance to twincast DoTs by itself than what Mirrored Pestilence provides. The biggest loser of these 4 classes is enchanters with only 33% chance to crit. Biggest winner is necro with the 18% crit from epic. (DoTs) ............Necro ......Ench ........Dru ........Shm Best ...............5,145 ......47,478 .....52,939 .....28,348 Second ...........4,431 ......18,317 .....20,839 .....25,199 Third ..............4,243 ........9,002 .....19,999 .....18,029 This is just a comparison of the top 3 DoTs each of these classes have on Beta. Enchanters do not have very many. Druids have about 6. Shamans have almost and many DoT lines as Necros. Now notice how it would easily take 10+ necro DoTs to even equal the damage of the best enchanter or druid DoT. However, we know that druids are not suffering very much in the line of AAs. In raid content, Necros can reach over 100% crit rate, but don't benefit from over 100%, while druids and enchanters can receive full benefit from AE buffs like Auspice, Fierce Eye, Bard epic, IoG, and even chromatic haze (LOLZ). If you want to get into a debate about activateable burns, I'll gladly show how much better Enchanter's, Druid's, and Shaman's twincast abilities are. Though shamans did just get theirs nerfed.
you are correct. necros are not expecting base dots of those values however you have to realize that having a base dot of 52k negates most of them. Or a 35k dot or a few 25k base dots. Its legitimately 10 casts of necro current dots for some. Now factor that in for multiple targets or trash. A druid, shaman and enchanter can twincast or just cast their big dots on 2-3 mobs in 2-3 casts and its like 20+ casts for a necro to try and catch up. thats why necros lose in the group game despite having much higher crit rates and after this beta if stuff stays as is will probably be losing in raids. those classes should rightly take more debuff slots and should get adps over necros and that swing makes necros useless. why carry 3 necros when you can just carry 3 druids instead who at worst will dps the same and do all the priest stuff when needed as well. this wreaks of the dev quote that a necro epic accounted for 45% of a necros dps and scaled better every expansion, they don't understand dots. Necros on beta have posted some very reasonable base dots think 13k base was the highest raid dot and 20k was the highest group dot. Druids, shaman and enchanters still need a massive reduction imo but necros can not just be ignored again considering this is a level cap increase. Its like they are revamping classes who were already revamped again. Necros shouldn't get dps spells over those classes dps spells at this point and thats pathetic. necros should be giving up adps spots to those classes at this point and thats pathetic. And already stink worse in the group game. Despite being the only true dps class of the 4. Its been 2 years already so don't give us the we don't have time this beta .
And as was pointed out crit rate in a raid setting at this stage of the game for casters means jack. Auspice chains, bard clicks, IoG, etc have many classes at 75-100% for minute after minute even with way way lower than necro base crit rate. It means you don't give us 30k base raid dots to spam but its not a keep your 5k dot while others get 52k base dots and say you have stuffs they dont. The so poorly tuned druid, shaman and enchanter dots that their base damage negates anything a necro has outside of going full burn on a single target for over a minute. its the sheer number of dots we can stack which goes away little by little that has hidden this more than it should have been.
This seems to be reasonable except when you look at the abilities priests, enchanters have versus necromancers they have roughly the same sustained ability (from AA and worn Item spell focus) and roughly two thirds of the burst abilities (again from the same AA worn Items) for DoT's. Necromancers have their epic giving a extra 18% to DoT crit rate percentage. That is actually the thing at the route of this revamp. Getting rid of necromancer epic is what triggered this whole DoT revamp to begin with. What they do have for all them compared to necromancer is better nuke enhancing abilities.
As I said before, I truly believe they want to get rid of the necro class. I see no other reason for what has been going on for last 2+ years with necro class. I find it hard to believe that devs are as incompetent as they have shown with all dots and necro AAs like RB, GoDR, etc. Just use a base damage guide and combine the lines with a few changes: DoTs 1m+ duration: ~3k/tick (Wounds change to 42s duration) DoTs 42s-54s duration: ~4-5k/tick DoTs 30s duration: ~6-10k/tick Swift: 0.5s cast time, 18s or less reuse or no timers, ~12-15k/tick (increase to 3 ticks) -- faster cast time on swifts is a must to help in the group game -- At worst have the swift dots on the same timers cast both dots with 1 spell. Plexipharia's Grasp: 1976/tick (6 sec. cast time!!!) 42s - TOO SLOW TO CAST! (Remove this spell line or fix the cast time.) -- I have never cast this spell from any version and never heard of any necro that has ever mem'd it. Grip of Jabaum: 1719 / tick (not cast, conflicts with other debuffs). 1m - Combine with another spell / make stackable - make it like cripple? Splirt: crap/tick (not cast, not useful, too long, abandoned spell line) 2m - Remove this spell line RB: refund the AA or make is useful in someway again. We DO NOT cast Lifetaps!!! GoDR: remove the need to nuke between casting 2 dots if you are never going to combine our dots.
Glad I wrote. The first time I finally got to see everyone lay out good arguments and factual data. I can’t do anything but totally agree 100% with you all. As I also wrote in my post, that many I guess didn’t focus on (it was after my first sentence), is that I am all for necro revamp also that priests need to get tuned down. Hope Necros get some much needed love.
passives yes Edit: this ignores other passives necromancers have (like epic). Plus, outside of perfect raid burns, they always have far higher crit rates than anyone else But necromancers also have plenty of activatable tools which WAY more than double all dot damage
I have a very strong feeling you did not read my post carefully enough. Or maybe you just didn't understand what I had written.
Thank you for posting this information. I noticed that my enchanter's dots don't crit often, but I didn't know they were so far behind these other classes. I agree that necros need some better dots and should get their promised dot consolidation. That, or all dot consolidation should be undone for everyone. I have some minor corrections to the information you posted, though. This is based on live so please forgive me if there have been changes in beta. I just tested, and chromatic haze does not affect Mind Storm, at all. It somewhat affects Drown in that it makes the initial DD crit and increases the damage of that crit. It then can make a tick of the dot damage crit, but it does not increase the damage of that crit by any noticeable amount. Chromatic Haze is much better used on a twincast of the DD Mindsunder since each of the twincasts will do more damage than the initial DD of Drown.
Its almost good that you are trolling so we can clear the air some. I am sure I missed some other abilities. And lets not forget that dots are supplemental for these other classes as they have all this AND similar tools for nukes which tend to be their primary form of dps except for maybe shaman who do have some big nukes as well. First we have activated twincast: Gift of Deathly Resolve for Necromancers: To further delay ramp up time you cast a nuke and then can twincast the next two dots. Repeat this cycle as much as you can in 66 seconds. Improved Twincast for Druid and Enchanters: 18 counters of twincasts to be used in 2.5 minutes if so desired. Twincast (spell) for druids: 18 seconds to twincast as many spells as you can fit in. 5 minute reuse. Fleeting Spirit (Decay) for Shaman: 10 counters to twincast any dot to be used in 2 minutes Advantage priests and enchanter. They have no gimmicks to slow up their dot ramp up time further. They pop twincast and cast their dots and thats that. Druids make out the best by also having spell twincast. Enchanters are the worst for twincasting dots on demand but they have the highest passive twincast rate with their aura and just like druids make up for it with their nuke power, dots are supplemental to them. Then we have added crit mods: Embalmers Carapace for necro: 125 Necro Third Spire for necro: 175 Destructive Vortex for Druids: 106 IoG for all: 115 Glyph for all: 60 Defilers Synergy for all in a necro group: 15 Advantage necromancer but its not such a big lead that explains the base damage they have seen. So this is where having massively over tuned dots like a 29k or 32k base dot offsets the advantage when compared to only have 4k or under dots dots, these are live numbers that only get worse on beta. Then we have added focus mods: Hand of Death for Necromancers: 30-120% Chaotic Power for Necromancers: proc 30-160% 20 counters or -1 to -50% (strips all focus boosts for 12 seconds) no counters Bard Aria or Aura for all: 45% Chromatic Haze for some druid, enc and shaman dots: 375% 2 counters Gift of Chromatic Haze for some druid, enc and shaman dots: proc 40% for 1 counter Advantage necromancers but not such a lead that explains the base damage we see for their dots. The 375% mod working on druids biggest dot is the reason they can do 6 or 7 million damage tics on live and if they end up with the 52k dot that will probably almost double after expansion launch. I realize chromatic haze only works on some dots and has very low counters but the bonus it provides in that tiny time considering the base damage on some of the dots it impacts dwarfs 5 tics of 10 necro dots in total while under their mods. Then we have activated crit rate: Omens of War BP for necro: 40% Intensity of the Resolute for all: 50% Fierce Eye for all: 12% Bard Epic for all: 12% IoG for all: 12% Auspice of the Hunter: 33% Destructive Vortex for druids: 9% First spire for shaman: 30% Advantage necromancer but again not by all that much. Our passive crit rate comes into to play but not to the degree people think because under mods everyone is super close to 75-100% for long durations from the above that stack and when in a passive crit rate setting its more than offset by the over tuned base damage. So necromancers have the advantage in most of the areas but its not some giant gap people believe in a raid or in a group setting with either a bard or enchanter present. The giant base damage they received negates almost all of these facts and its only that necromancers can stack 20 dots on verse 3-6 for most of these classes that they are able to close the gaps. Thats absurd being that none of these other classes are pure dps classes. Necromancers need to go up some but not anything like what others saw like was posted on beta. But some of these live dots for enc, druids and shaman also still need to go down as well considering what they have. They are not primary dps classes and never should rival actual dps classes. Just to repeat that for you the ONLY reason necros remain ahead in raids despite having some of the best tools is because they can stack 20 dots.
A couple of things: Embalmer's Cara only gives a 25% crit mod. If you even bothered to read you'd see the epic was included in the info provided. So no, it was not ignored. Perfect raid burns? I'll give u a Krono (and i dont have many) if you can get the Devs to trade our Gift of Deathly Resolve for the abilities currently employed by a druid. Matter of fact, just change it to Improved Twin Cast. Don't even worry about the spell that refreshes every 5 mins.
The fact you need to keep up towards 20 DoTs on a mob to compete is silly on its own. Something really needs to be done to help out the necro class. Devs please look here and see our pain!
