Hey aybreak! Want to get a lot of Kronos out of circulation?

A lot of the items that cost DBC are tradeable, so there isn't a way to limit the impact to just the player converting their Kronos.

Plus, they already let you convert 1 krono per month into 500 DC (when you consume it). They have incentive to continue limiting the conversion to 500 DC per month: the 500 DC gives the customer a "taste", and that's a proven selling technique. But they still have zero incentive to allow any more conversion than that.

Speaking of selling techniques: buying "card packs" is gambling and has the same addicting affect on people's minds. I "bet" DBG's online card pack casino in the Marketplace makes more money for DBG than selling bags and exp pots, and they wouldn't want to touch that revenue.

I think I'm starting to see other games that are truly "free to play" AND that let you buy all the store items with EITHER in-game currency or real cash. Using the same "just a taste" technique, they assume that customers will still spend real money to get items faster than they can earn them in-game. EQ/DBG doesn't really need to do that, since their fanbase is so rabidly loyal (even if they "hate" DBG) that they continue to pay pretty much the highest price per month of any MMO.

I think you are right, that we can't know how they are actually accounting for it. There certainly can be tax advantages to declaring it as deferred revenue (DBG may not need to pay taxes on the krono income until they are redeemed).

But we can be certain, since there are no refunds for kronos, that they don't ever have to honor any outstanding kronos, should the game "shut down". Kronos are like gift cards in this regard. If you look at the long game, like an investor does, then you can float the outstanding Krono income and not pay taxes on it, bleed the company dry until the game isn't making as much profit as you want, then shut your doors and servers. At this point, you would normally have to pay taxes on the Krono income, but not if you can show that your company is in debt, which is what you usually want to do if you close your business (so you don't have to pay taxes as you close your doors).

Essentially, I suspect that outstanding/unused Kronos are essentially tax free income for DBG, in the long run.

The only words I could think of when reading this was.

• Bankruptcy trustee audit
• Liability shield intrusion into the parent company
• Unearned income issues

Daybreak does potentially lose something if Exp Potions (for example) can be bought with Krono. They lose the cash sale someone might have otherwise made. That is why a bakery or pizza shop destroys unsold product instead of giving it away.

Before this thread is closed, I want to say how much I enjoy this conversation that directly relates to EQ and EQ fans. Bankruptcy isn't illegal, but I did not mean to imply that DBG would have to declare bankruptcy or do anything illegal.

Unused Kronos are always free money to DBG. Whether or not it is also tax-free income seems to hinge on whether companies can use/spend deferred income before they have to account for it and pay taxes on it. Can they spend it as soon as it hits their bank accounts? I haven't been able to find anything that says they can't, and we see evidence that they can/do spend that money all the time. Otherwise, [bankrupt] businesses might be compelled to refund gift cards, which is rare and even prohibited by bankruptcy courts in some cases. Customers are just about the lowest priority on the creditor payback totem pole.

Sorry your previous verbiage just reminded me of an old consulting job hence my obtuse list.
In either case my point was entirely fraud nothing more nothing less.

This seems like the best argument against allowing the exchange of Krono for DBC.

So the argument then boils down to: would the increased desirability of krono result in more revenue from increased krono sales than lost revenue from decreased daybucks direct purchase?

I am of the opinion that the lost daybuck sales would be minimal, while boosting krono relative value and shorting the number in circulation currently would cause much more to get purchased.

Boosting the value of Kr after the sale does nothing for DBG. Allowing any "cashing out" of the device does nothing but open a can of worms for DBG.

Nope the krono hounds are almost certainly stuck with them except where they are of use as is. Hear they sell for about $8 or so and that is enough given the way people act about accumulating Kr.
Of course if that number went up to $10 or higher due to increased value at DBG's expense then I am sure many days would be brighter but not Day Break's.

That's not entirely true. I'll just use some easy figures here.

Let's assume 25,000 krono on agnarr in surplus
Let's assume DBG sells 5000 krono a month

If the surplus grows I'm almost sure the amount of krono sales per month decline. By what % is just guess work but my hunch is keeping the surplus low would fuel more sales because the current thinking is one can work for a krono in game because of the relative high supply of krono availabe for trade.

For example on Agnarr if you log every channel on an average day you can find around 100 - 150 krono for sale at whatever (x) plat price. If that availability went down sure the plat price would rise but it would make it quite a bit tougher for anyone to farm more and thus have to buy more from DBG.

We'll that's just my thinking anyhow. Take it with a grain I don't know what I'm talking about.

Nothing is really wrong with your logic I just know for a certainty corp wonks do not think that way.
If it aint turning ROI in one quarter it aint feasible. Accounts for a lot of disdain I hold the corp world.

I'm not following the logic of in-game surplus affecting out-of-game krono sales from DBG. Kronos are the most expensive subscription that DBG sells, and they are absolutely most valuable to DBG if they go unused in any way. As soon as they get redeemed, in any manner, they become less valuable to DBG.

I think most kronos are bought from DBG by new or returning players who want a quick boost in-game. I bet their biggest spikes in krono sales come from new servers and new expansions, things that get players to come back.

Yes and no. You are assuming that 25,000 krono represents the supply. It could be that 20,000 of those are on inactive or banned accounts. In that case it doesn't hurt sales. My example is intentionally contrived but you get my point.

People don't buy krono from daybreak because they need to pay for subscriptions. Krono is more expensive. People buy krono because someone else wants to use it to pay for subscriptions (or ideally daybucks) and they can sell it to that person. If you increase the value of krono being sold to other players, you increase the incentive to pay daybreak money for them.

I'm pretty sure this is where the disconnect is. The value of NEW Kronos being sold to other players is already always increasing, because tradeable items (including platinum) enter the game far faster than they leave the game. The cost of a NEW Krono is always $17-18. And I can get more in-game value for that krono each week a server is up. Once they are in the game, kronos continue to lose their value over time, but that doesn't affect DBG in the least.

As you said, people don't buy krono to pay for subscriptions. Why then, would people buy krono to pay for DB cash? In the end, it doesn't increase any krono sales, it just gives people with extra kronos another place to redeem them (which likely negatively impacts DBG's books).

I think its a good idea to sell them back to daybreak for DB dollars.

I look at this way. Krono is sold for 17.99 at some point. Only DB makes new krono. Recycled ones are .. a different topic.

If a krono is right clicked, sold/traded or given back to DB does it matter? Either way they made their 17.99. The best way I could see it working is if they make Krono worth a higher value than DB cash when traded in. For instance if u trade in a Krono ($18) on the cash shop you receive 2000 DB cash.

I'm not sure the profit margin of an experience pot, but I don't imagine they cost much to make. If people had further ways to redeem a Krono I think more would be sold.

What items are tradeable? A lot are heirloom but I don't see any that are tradeable outside your account offhand...

Prize packs and some of the ornament items such as robes when those unlock. Outside of that most is no trade and a lot are not even heirloom.

I think those prize packs are huge business. But either way, the irony of this thread is that it let's DBG know that there are things in the Marketplace that you want to buy. Why would they make them available for free?

I think people are way over analyzing this whole thing. Obviously they would not have a krono exchange across the board for 1800 DBC it would have to be something in the ballpark of a krono for 1000 DBC. In reality this works out better for them then a sub since the sub give a player 500 DBC for free so the player is only ahead 500 DBC but loses 30 days of sub time and the cash up front instead of waiting.

Lets consider how far ahead they already are from a krono purchase. I mean seriously who ever was sitting at the table and came up with the idea of a krono should have been promoted if they already have not. "I have an idea lets make an in game item that is tradable and is worth 30 days of sub time but we will charge 8 dollars more for this item than a standard yearly sub as a convenience fee and then we can take that 18 dollars for unused services and invested it in the real world and make even more money on it." I mean freakin genius if you ask me. Can you imagine if say ITunes wanted to sell their gift cards this way? Hey spend 18 bucks and we will give you 10 bucks worth of music but... you can trade it to anybody. Only in an MMO does this work and it works well obviously.