Discussion about GoD and OoW

DBG actively asked for input.

Is there any way a mod can change the thread title to something like "Let's talk about GoD and OoW"? I can't understand why the OP thought this was the most appropriate way to title the thread.

Releasing oow and god at the same time is a huge mistake. Everyone is just going to skip GoD for the most part besides maybe super min maxers who go back for certain things. You already had to make an entire new system to make old raiding more then just instant mob death. The playerbase is more then capable of handling GoD in era there has been tons of changes that make players more powerful then original.

The bottom line is if the server is struggling with the content release oow the week you decide that. Don't just release it out right because of speculation.

+1
don't bundle them.
I want to experience the progression

And, i had to dig out my pw for this page just to post this message!

I'm all in favor of NOT bundling GoD and OOW.

I'm playing on TLP to relive the old content similarly to how it was meant to be experienced.

+1

I came back on progression servers mainly to experience the content i haven't been able to 15 years ago. I stopped at PoP back in the days and i would like to do at least GOD and OOW before being done with TLP servers (because yeah, i started again on Ragefire, i started again on Phinigel so there's not gonna be another TLP for me). If GOD and OOW comes bundled it's obvious that the vast majority of players are going to skip GOD content to do OOW, and i'm not here to skip expansions, so if this decision is maintained i'm probably gonna quit EQ sooner than expected, most likely after POP or even before.

+1 Just check my handle...

People don't play past PoP

I can say with 100% certainty that Resolute, as a guild, wants GoD and OOW as two separate expansions. I don't think I have heard a single person say otherwise.

So I feel pretty safe in saying:

+90ish

Combining the expansions would be the moment I cancel my sub. I think Most of us want them seperate!!

I believe, at the very least, this thread has stayed on topic and a large number of individuals have spoken out in favor of keeping the expansions separate. We also caught the attention of a mod/dev who changed the topic name to one more fitting of the discussion.

Yes, thank you for changing that, mod.

I really hope we can get some serious discussion about this topic, because it seems like when it comes down to it, there are very few people who actually want these two expansions bundled.

Combining these two expansions would be a major mistake... Is GoD hard? yes, is it too hard? Not anymore, it has been retuned so many times.

+1 to no bundling

In the straw poll that was conducted (before the post was pulled), it was overwhelmingly against the bundling of Omens and Gates. It was something around 85% against, 5% don't care, 10% for.

Having lead multiple guilds that progressed through these eras (In era, and on Fippy), I can say that it's not difficult. The original GoD was difficult, and it was detuned to make it easier.

To emphasize how easy it was, we were doing Uqua on Fippy, in era, in around 35 minutes zone uptime. We were split raiding Tunat, the end boss, with ease.

Berserkers need time to mature. The best in slot augment for numerous expansions, the BiC, will keep people busy.

Historically, a lot of guilds did fall off after Planes of Power on the progression servers. On Fippy, from firsthand experience, this was primarily due to multiple factors - 1. The failed GoD vote, 2. Toxic elements on the server. On Phinigel, as long as instancing is done right, 2 won't be an issue. We're full steam ahead, so there's no votes in regards to 1. It will be the most successful TLP to date.

We've already had multiple people quit as GoD is one of the favorites that they specifically came back for to this server. It's not too late to do the right thing, as was initially advertised. And the sooner you announce it, the better your subscription base will be long term.

Aside from the indicated "PvE difficulty" of the expansion, as was indicated for the reasoning, what other factors were involved to make this decision?

Here's a few gems from that era. They won't be see as often as we'd like if GoD and Omens were bundled though!

A Dima post that doesn't make me or want to throat punch! Good, relevant points with only 1 minor mention of self-promotion. Well done!

I feel like its worth mentioning again that this is one of very few times where most people from opposite ends of the EQ spectrum(hardcode vs casual and everyone in between) and even those who tend to disagree with each other on many issues or flat out dislike each other can come together on a unified front and actually agree on something.

Indeed Discord was a difficult expansion, but thats what I loved about it. It took serious discipline and skills to progress through it. I would really hate to see it trivialized because players could gear up in Omens with more levels and more aa's then just come back to Discord and plough through content in easy mode.
It's still one of the few expacs where when talking with other players we share stories about it and laugh / cringe at memories of the raids. It was absolutely great.
I don't agree with the entitlement argument that group players/boxers or small guilds should be able to push through current content with the same ease as larger raiding guilds. This has never been the case. In the past smaller guilds were raiding top end content from the last expac, and easier targets in the current, because they were smaller and needed the advantage of more levels/aa's etc.
I've been in those guilds, and it wasn't a bad thing. I was in one for Discord at the time, and we still had a ton of fun attempting raids there. We must have wiped in Uqua a dozen or more times before we defeated it, and yes it was frustrating, but we got better and better at it, and what a sense of accomplishment when we finally beat it. We did progress, albeit slower than larger guilds who were defeating content we just couldnt touch. We never did make it through Discord in it's own time, but I still wouldn't change a thing. I didnt see it then, and I still don't, as a problem. We were gearing up in Luclin and Pop, still having fun there.
At this point in the timeline there was tons of stuff for us to do, and still plenty of items of value to go back and try for in Luclin, and Pop. Quests to work on, clickies from VT and Time, etc. We were not sitting around bored twiddling our thumbs because we couldnt raid the top tier zones in Discord, this simply was not the case.
Stronger guilds were getting through the Discord content just fine as I recall. It was not too hard. It was just hard. If I wanted to play a game where I won every time I'd be playing WoW. I enjoy EQ for the challenge it presents.

I would ask at the very least, to launch Omens 3 months after Discord, and give the people that would like to play the content in the order it was intended, some time in it before handing us more levels and aa's to mitigate the difficulty. I can see how the standard rule of voting / launching after content has been beaten might make Discord just take way too long before Omens would go live. So perhaps this would be a way to remedy that.

It sounds like some of the people posting are coming from the Ragefire/Lockjaw perspective. Personally, i didn't realize that they also planned to bundle these expansions on those servers, too. I can certainly see how that would be almost even more upsetting.

From a Phinigel player's perspective, if we absolutely had to do a half expansion duration (1.5 month) as a compromise, i could see that being OK, though personally i would prefer if it were just released using the standard 3 month rule.

To play devils advocate, the one advantage to opening them at the same time is that OoW is more group friendly. GoD is very much a raiders expansion with little to offer those that don't progress deeply into PoP.

That said, I'm a raider so I'm for splitting the two. In fact, if you really wanted to add some fun into the mix, make it four weeks between GoD and OoW and see if anyone can rise to the challenge!

+1 for not bundling. Has to be the worst idea from DBG to date.

MAKE NORRATH !

If they want to cut down on the timeline, to me it would make much greater sense to combine OoW and DoN and then DoDH and PoR together.

These are all level 70 expansions with little actual character progression or increase in Mob difficulty, I mean the Epic 2.0 (or 2.5) is still BiS for many classes even at the end of PoR.