Some trade offs exist, but they're not just limited to between dps vs dps or tank vs tank, so if you want to consider some scenarios and ignore others, not sure what to tell you. To me if a ranger is snaring/rooting to CC in the absence of an ench/bard, they're filling in for the CC role, so there's nothing scandalous about comparing their CC utility against a "pure" cc class. And you'll note that while they do this, their dps takes a hit because they're busy doing cc things and nuking/attacking less. Could say the same thing for a Paladin stepping in to heal or a variety of other hypotheticals. With pet tanking, however, the nature of how pets work in this game make it a little silly - if they gave you guys some more active and versatile pet utility that required regular attention it'd go a long way, but the game is way too old for anything new sadly. Not to mention most of the class doesn't really want to end up as a pet cleric - they want to dps!
This is the issue really. I'm not opposed to having to use activated abilities to "work at" aggro, but they don't exist currently and the devs don't seem interested in adding them. Not to discredit their work on the mitigation nerf as I think that that was, overall, much better handled than nearly every other nerf I've seen since, but they could've implemented new abilities to make pet owners take a more active role. Instead, they chose to keep activated abilities the same and maintain a pet that had the vast majority of its power passively. I personally don't consider not nuking or using lower DPS/aggro lineups (which, ironically, also use way more mana ) as particularly healthy options as opposed to requiring us to add some sort of pet aggro spell to our weave. Not nuking is just bad design, and the low DPS lineups we have really suck.
The same story goes for most tanks, and DPS'ers, respectively. Except you're both in one box. Comparisons aren't unreasonable.
I know I will be scrutinized for this suggestion. I want to hear what people think non-the-less. We all want more differentiation with each pet. What if there was a change to differentiate tank pets from DPS pets. Make DPS pets such as rogue/water/fire become non-targetable. This would act more like a visual DPS option for pet classes to use in groups with a tank. Keep warrior/earth/air pets the same as they are now. The DPS pets would get a DPS increase and tank pets a decrease. Pet classes would have to make a good decision for choosing a pet based on group makeup. I guess DPS pets would have to stop attacking if the pet owner loses agro or something to prevent exploiting. I also don't know how beastlord warders would fit in. This is probably a dumb idea.
I guess the thing all magicians should learn from this thread... If you go Spear x4 you are going to pull aggro and not be able to accomplish your goals. If you go Fickle then Spear x3 you are not going to pull aggro and be able to accomplish your goals.
HAHAHAHA.... Well I'd been away - only for a week-plus. Ish. Aggro changes are huge obviously. I won't re-hash that. But MITIGATION hahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahhahahahahahahah. Wow. You know, I've been doing this 17 years and have (pretty much) taken all the changes and adapted. Even bought another account so I could become the very worst 2-boxer in Everquest history. Just because I love the game and I figured c'est la vie.. This has me at the end of my rope. lol. Seriously. I'm paid on yearly subscription so they have me hooked until summer. And I'll wait patiently for changes and some much-needed dev explanation. But it's not a target that's on us now.. it's a red laser dot. They never miss. And I love my necro and beastlord brethren and would NEVER suggest they be nerfed in ANY way. I just don't understand why the Mages are getting the pain like this. We all know what (some other classes) can do. There was ONE idiot who did that army-of-pets thing on 2 servers. I know who he is. But that is an anomaly. I figure there's scripting and all kinds of hoo-hah there but I enjoy the game without that and 99.99999 percent of Mages do to. (Yes I pulled that out of my hat along with a bloody bunny.) I have loved this game and my only character has been a Mage. And I have taken it on the chin and trudged on. But this really is the last straw. They need to address this, change it, and if they have a problem with some guy who makes 98247239472903 pets and manages to control them to the game's detriment, talk to HIM. Punishing us all for this is crazy. These changes are CRAZY. lol... I just really can't believe it. Seriously can't believe this. I can't say it enough... I'm.. just... gut-hurt, disappointed, and jaw-dropped to the ground in a comic position. They're going to have to commit me soon I'm cackling hysterically....
My intent was to never tell others how to play. It was to illustrate and show that even with the changes, I can still accomplish my goals by making some small changes to my play style. That is basically it. I started to get debated and discussed in this thread, so I responded accordingly. I titled this thread with the ending "I think. Maybe" because it was one Health partisan I was basing it off of. I also tried initially in Crypt of Sul using a different method and failed miserably. Just because I was able to complete one Health partisan by myself doesn't mean everything is A-OK with pet aggro and the magician class. I stated in the original post that I seriously highly doubt a group pet focus magician can solo TBM content with multi pulls. I feel that is an issue that could be improved with more Remorseless pet aggro. I do feel that the magician class, as a group, tends to over react to changes in game. The sky is falling, we cannot do anything, they should get rid of the class, etc etc. There are some magicians who don't jump off the bridge, but a good majority do. I have jumped off the bridge in the past a couple times, only to test and experience and realize maybe it isn't all that bad. I kind of did after last Friday when I tested pet aggro on Crypt of Sul, and changed my mind the other day after that Health partisan. That, again, was the intent of this thread- don't listen to all the surrounding noise. Test for yourself, adapt and make some changes, and you can still be successful. Of course some magicians, like I illustrated in the one story I shared, firmly believe that they should just be able to do /pet attack and then Spear pew-pew-pew throughout with no recourse. Heaven forbid you throw a pet heal or hit your Aegis AA, that lowers your DPS!!! Heaven forbid you use one of the other five+ DD spells we have o no cause that lowers DPS!!! If it is not Spear x4 then you are not doing it right!!! And if a magician would ever equip an augment that lowers aggro instead of a DD augment, o goodness take him behind the barn and end his misery cause it is all about pew-pew-pew DPS!!! And it always makes me smile when someone creates a New Member account to belittle another player, regardless of thread. You may be right, I may not be in the same league as other magicians. However I kind of think I am in that mix. I know there are some better magicians than me, and we communicate in tells and on serverwide channel often. But I am glad a New Member has the low down on all the rankings of magician skill in game. I will work extra hard to get to their league!
i love all the "New Members" whos been playing sense 1999 but couldent figure out how to make a forum acount untill 2016 but they they got the pulse of the ppl fo sho
Let's for a moment assume, all we have to do is to pull our punches even further and suddenly pet aggro is fine for us again. But ... what do we tell the wizards, rogues, monks, berserkers, rangers, necromancers, druids, shamen, enchanters and clerics that end up tanking because they thought our tankpet was actually able to hold aggro, even with only moderate DPS? I mean, after they graciously allowed pets to tank for melees.
Cicely is an excellent Magician. I know this change is too recent for me to have any degree of certainty with regard to the best lineup for pet tanking, so I very much appreciate Cicely sharing what's working for him. I'm not necessarily in agreement about his conclusion (personally I try to avoid more than two spears in a lineup, in addition to fickle), but I still find the information very useful and it very well may be the best we can do in light of the agro issues. New Members never fail to entertain, though.
I case some of you have forgotten there is 3 pet class not just Mage , and pet agro is poor for them all atm Yi Min
For the other pet classes, their pets never were a reason to stagnate or nerf their personal DPS (as far as I am informed at least).
I'm a new member. Not a new player though. And I'd never "dis" Cicelee, as I respect her and have been reading her posts for years, but am recounting my experiences today after reading all the fuss after being away only a week or so. No hate, here, for anyone. Much hate, however, for this latest in a line-up of nerfs that just keeps going and going and...
My necro is doing fine in comparison. It's almost hard, outside the obvious, to see a parallel between the given scenarios the two (mage and necro) face.
Bst DPS was always nerfed ,since against tough mobs they could never melle . but then they could and now they cant again , cause pet cant hold agro ,So Bst is again losing good chuck of her DPS .. So I agree and don't agree with what you have said here .. Sure I agree this is not hiting Necro as bad as Mage/Bst but they are feeling this also , since I bet they flopping now like fish out of water . Yi Min
There is a difference between "not be able to use" and "dont have". Beastlords at least can go all out if a tank is in group. Magicians are severly hurting for DPS, especially in raids, and the one argument that always surfaced was "you got a pet that is able to tank".
They key word here is if a tank in the group , but you have also forgotten if I even want to group , sometimes I don't.And since I cant use melle dps with out a tank or a pet that can hold agro . I don't really have it do I ? I play a Mage and Bst both raiders , you don't have to tell me Mage DPS is hurting I know full well it is ..This thread about Pets and the owners Mage/Necro/Bst . Yi Min
This is an excellent point that I feel requires further discussion. Earth pet could have much higher agro than the other pets, in addition to some Mage-supported agro increases for the pet. E.G. Veil-like spells, where the pet casts a spell on its target.
