Entitled to transfer solution

I came up with an even more brilliant solution, and I didn't need general chat to do it! Here it goes:

Allow those who want to transfer the ability to transfer.

Frakking genius!

Oh no I hadnt meant forcing anyone to move. I was saying the transfers would require that you had voted for the rules of the server you're moving to. Thank you for clearing that up.

I hear what you're saying I really do. Thats why I think opening the transfers to like-minded people IS the way to go.

LJ has a guild here that attempted to be a thorn in the servers side as soon as the server opened. It's mainly one person boxing umpteen toons and he used to be able to grief the entire server prior to the revamps of the bosses. Open the transfers and it becomes too easy for his kind to flock here to support him on a whim. It's been stated by a few of his old guildmates on RF that given a free transfer they'd come over to reproduce the same "competitive" environment you all are enjoying (or not) currently. They're just to lazy to do so because they're the types that "buff and then go afk, seriously thats all I do". Give them a free xfer and we're basically saying "you ruined your lands why dont you come ruin ours as well".

We dont want that environment to come to LJ. I cant see how anyone would really want that but some are masochists I guess. Instead im saying we want those who're committed to a max nostalgia time line and the personality types that accompany that mindset.

Unfortunately, that type will come to LJ whether or not transfers are open to all if they really want to. Forcing someone who voted for 3 months or Kunark NOW to stay on RF isn't going to stop them, they'll just create new box armies if LJ's environment becomes more profitable.

I'm afraid that while the reasons are sincere, I don't foresee a way to stop people from griefing without hurting the 99% of RF players that want to move solely because they voted for it and want 6 months of classic, or because their friends and/or guild are moving. Some players will change their minds when their support structure decides to move to LJ, though as I stated earlier, I don't believe targeting them will resolve what you're trying to resolve. These players simply are not the players that you want to punish or prevent from moving.

It's also detrimental to any argument you present when you refer to RF players as all toxic. They're not. Many are courteous, kind, will respect camps, and will go out of their way to help you.

If you could present a reasonable argument that would prevent griefers from coming over, I might listen. So far, in any post like this, I have not seen a single argument that would not hurt the good, desirable players. It seems that if you want the good, you're going to get the bad, too.

In the long run, that's a good thing. More players on Lockjaw means more life, longer, for Lockjaw.

Less players leaving EQ altogether because Ragefire is now a 3 month server because they can transfer to the six month server is also a very good thing.

More revenue = more game and more lifespan for it, it's as simple as that.

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S-O-S, different day, aye.

I think that you are probably letting one guy have more of an impact on you then he really should have.


Look, this guy saying this is clearly trying to make you scared of the move, he sounds like a , but you are actually spreading his trolling (not calling you a troll here at all, to be clear) to a far wider audience and helping him create bad feeling about this situation. This is what I mean

There is no wave of asshats coming. What you are getting from RF are the laid back 6 month progression people. Are some of those dicks, sure, this is a MMORPG after all and it has dicks, but the people coming are not this guy or his type.

Don't let the vocal minority set the tone for the majority

This is one of the best counter arguments ive read on this subject. It's right in line with Blackstone's formulation that "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" which I mostly endorse. Well said. In fact I think it ultimately swayed me give up my last vestiges of defense against the FFA transfers, with a caveat.

I havent referred to anyone as flat out toxic in this thread.

These, and many other less eloquent posts, are the ones outlining any level of toxicity and simultaneously point the fingers at one anothers playgrounds as the definitive area that said toxicity happens.

Anyhow I have to get on to work so wont be able to respond for a bit. Hopefully things are sorted out for the best!

They should force anyone who voted ASAP or 3 months on Lockjaw to move to Ragefire!

because like obviously they are only there to grief the server right?

When I said "you" I wasn't specifically referring to you; more to the pile of venomous posts from some LJ players that paint RF players that way. In that regard, I apologize as no offense was meant.

I've also had to rethink my stance on krono a bit. Several weeks ago I posted staunchly in support of them on TLP servers since the original purchase cash ultimately goes to DB (stay with me, lol, I promise it's relevent) but over time I've seen more and more that a lot of the toxic behavior LJ players are trying to avoid is based on the trade and sale of krono, not just raid content.

While I still believe buying krono with cash helps support the game we all love, I can also now see how it's causing a lot of greedy and selfish tactics and playstyles.

I had stated previously that I would consider a solution that would not hurt the good players, and perhaps rather than limiting transfers based on votes, something along the lines of limiting how many krono you can have active at any given time on the progression servers would be a better solution.

Don't do away with them altogether - that hurts DB's bottom line and we don't want that. Rather, maybe we could say you can only have 5 or 6 or 12 stored on the TLP servers, and only trade 1-2 per day. I don't know, I'm pulling those numbers out of my hat.

Anyway, I'm willing to listen to solutions, and do understand what you're trying to avoid. Thanks for your post, I can see you're willing to listen, too.

I don't think concern over people moving from RF to LJ just to grief LJ is a significant part of their "ironing out the details." I suspect it is more - when do we open transfers? how long will the transfer period be? how many toons can transfer for free? do we make paid transfers available to people who want to move more than the number allowed for free? what will we charge for paid transfers (e.g. the standard transfer rate for other servers or some other amount)? etc...

I don't think you read the Aristo post very carefully. He did not say that 60% of players in the most recent vote voted for 6 months of classic. In fact he said that the combined vote for ASAP and 3 months exceeded the vote for 6 months.

This. All of this.

There is no reason to place any restrictions whatsoever.

There are a ton of reasons not to. This scratches on just a few.

The fact is, the real jerks are already on LJ. They came the instant it opened. They are also on RF. They never left. They are pros, as in, playfor profit. They play on both.

TLP is a money-farming machine, and not just for DBG. So these players play on both.

As someone who hates krono's yet buys and sells them in auction for fun. The real issue with krono is that is creates a play style of farm for your subscription.

My current friend started on TLP with 12 guys to farm krono's from other players to take back to his "real" server. He has zero intention of actually playing here.

I'd rather have seen them disabled, as I had no clue what it was before my friend explained them to me after coming back to EQ after many years.

I killed JFK.

There, I said it. Doesn't make it true.

That's the long and short of it.

If you think people won't say something that they have no intention of doing in order to attempt to sway the court of public opinion, then you haven't hung out on these forums very long... ;-)

And even if it were true, just as many LJ players will move their "" alts to RF, because they want to have some toxic fun now and then, to slum it a bit.

So sorry, not a valid reason to not to transfers...

"It'll happen".

I'm actually surprised that there's a human being on this planet that sees a problem with open transfers. Let people go where they want, it's not a difficult concept.

Templeton's post is spot on. I have been saying for two weeks that LJ players don't have to fear the new players coming. I really, really think that in the short-term and very long-term, this is a GREAT THING for LJ...it's the mid-term I'm worried about.

I believe that after the transfer ends, LJ population will absolutely outnumber RF, and many of those that move over will be people still in their mid 30's or below, you know, the people who wanted to have 6 months to level to 50. In the short-term this will be good (LJ needs these players at those levels), and in the very long-term this will be good a LJ will be the healthier server. I'm sure of it. This will reverse the 1-week late start.

However, Templeton didn't hit on one issue, and it's the issue I raised the instant the plan was announced two weeks ago: that of plat/kroon/item farming for RMT.

Templeton is right of course, the farmers are already there on LJ. Just as they are on RF. This is because there are customers on both who will buy their wares.

My concern, and I do believe it is legitimate, is that within a month or two, these farmers will realize what should be obvious if my above assumptions are true: the CASUALS with MORE MONEY than TIME are disproportionately now on LJ, so THAT is the better market for their farming for RMT.

What impact this will have is hard to predict. Will they still focus on RF equally as LJ? Will LJ get more focus? And if it does, what does that do to toxicity of camps with Pros sitting in all instances farming items.

I don't know. But it is a concern, but as a RFer, I'm willing to take that risk for 6 months of classic...

I think your perception that casuals are the only ones buying kronos on TLP servers is the false one. The boxers buy their kronos themselves off third party sites since its cheaper than paying for a subscription to begin with and they didn't exactly need TLP to generate them, many of them had a large stockpile before servers launched and simply engaged in selling thier kronos for high prices and buying new ones for cheaper. The kronos trade is more often whales trading with whales.

Not to mention you can't prevent someones kronos from becoming inserted into a servers economy, all they have to do is roll a low level alt and they have kronos there to buy and sell back and forth with.

There's that word again, the favorite one of the TLP servers. You're not entitled to anything. Transfers will be available.

It was just a thought; and something off of the top of my head. I suppose the point was that I understand the concern, but can't really see a way to restrict transfers without hurting the people who need them the most. As you pointed out, that comes with a new set of problems, too.

Wonder how long people would farm camps for 0 xp if loot was no drop?
Simple database changes can solve so many problems.