re: no box progression server

Hoping to get some input from the devs, even if the answer is from another thread and this one thread gets locked down.

Why would you punish legit boxers and force us to play w/ the toxic element that seems to gravitate towards abusing the third party software?

Why is opening a server that promotes single client play (no boxing) punishing a "legit" boxer? Nobody would be forcing you to play there.

I love how players screamed that they dont want Pay to WIN... but they defend that 3p Program that the boxers are using.. which is a Paid program that lets them Easy mode the game. Its PAY TO WIN... Daybreak should shut its use down. IF it was free program that anyone could get then I might not be so offended cause I could just go get it myself.. But its a subscription based service.. that goes against everything that EQ has stood for..... players getting an edge if they pay more for it. I find that offensive and it needs to be stopped.

I think it is fine to have a no-boxing server, but my wife and I both multibox so won't even consider playing there. It's the exact same way we feel about a PvP server - glad there is one for the people with interest, but no interest from either of us.

That's a very different thing from changing the current ruleset of a server to suddenly change how we play there. At least DBG stated that won't be the case.

But, on a PvP server, everyone is equal since they are all PvP, you don't get to fiddle with settings in your computer to make yourself PvE. That makes it a decent concept.

As soon as you talk about IP *anything* restrictions, you are losing the families, college students, internet cafes, or real life friends who get together to play together as a real life group.

Then, it's easy to buy access to a VPN or spoof the IP address. It's also cheap to buy a computer which is capable of running EQ (or buy an old one at a yard sale, which would very likely run EQ due to it's minimal needs).

And, any talk about monitoring the computer for "third party" applications has very serious legal consequences. Kids play EQ, spying on kids is not a great idea. It gets worse, though, when those kids are heavily abused and no longer living at home, and under substantial court imposed protections. Yet, they play video games. Any information taken about the childrens systems can be seen as a violation of a court order, and although in the end it may end well, this is not at all a cheap, short term legal fix for a gaming company to get out of.

You need to realize that "easy for you to say" and "easy to implement" are entirely different things.

The box crews have never been an issue on live. If we consider the reasons, we may be able to move in the right direction. Mages are massively OP, this encourages the crews. If mage power was reduced, at least at the lower levels, then there wouldn't be as much of a reason to use them.

One of the reasons mages make excellent box team members is that it is fairly simple to get good performance out of them. No slight intended to mage mains, but a couple of hotkeys can get more DPS form a mage box than from any other class.

How hard is it for a GM to use their tools and locate the guys running 6 mages to eat through content? They simply aren't doing anything at the moment though, which is why these jerks have no qualms stealing mobs from players that are solo or even in 2 or 3 man groups.

Please just care about this game and defend it. First time give them a warning if you must, but ban their entire account - across all games - for 30 days. They do it again throw their accounts into the trashbin. Problem solved. 1 month is all it would take to target the 30 or 40 people that are doing this - word would spread fast, and tbh these guys are garbage and ruin your game anyways. They won't be missed.

Doing this would vastly improve the game and I would absolutely support a server devoted to seeing this happen.

Yeah I agree... but how many of the dev's and people working there are boxing? They mention all the time that they play the game like everyone else... makes me wonder if they cater to raiders more because they are the raiders being the dicks......

making a server for people who want to play solo and meet new people to group with without having to deal with boxers hogging everything is punishing you? you have your place let us have ours.


Just because you aren't on one part of the extreme doesn't mean that you are 100% in the clear. Some of us want to see other living players it seems every where I go I see a self sufficient army of one person taking everything. It is near impossible to get anything done over it (on lockjaw at least)

you have LITERALLY EVERY OTHER SERVER. let us have ONE


I seriously don't understand how having ONE SINGLE server that you don't have to be a part of is punishing you... seriously its like you just want to take it away from others. This no box server is all my friends and I can talk about and I seriously hope it happens.

You want to turn back time, it would be cool right...but it's not happening.

Not only Eq was different back then, the internet was.
People were curious, talking with friends on ICQ was awesome (and enough to make our day).
Now you have Twitter and all the other attention whoring tools, the internet is abused for everything including scams, and in Eq you have 6 mage crews and other .

You can't keep this what i call new generation out, well okay maybe with massive effort from DGB they could...but there is a counter for everything on the net these days.
You are doing yourself a favor if you accept the old days are not coming back, once a medium is discovered by the masses...this is the result. Most of the people who played Eq for an alternate reality which naturally includes playing only 1 toon are long gone, too.

It's not "punishing boxers", it's having the option to play without boxers in any shape or form.

Like it or not, what you need to realise is many people consider boxing as much cheating as botting.

Boxing is built into the the game, window mode yourself, drag the cursor to the bottom of the screen. See, anyone can box via the game ui, no cheating involved.

Back in 2000-2004, verant/sony frowned upon boxing and third party use age, it was illegal back then. there were very few of us. I would have considered this cheating, which I did. No doubt, have never denied it.

Always much easier to form my own group and add folks who were lfg then to hope that I would find 3-5 players who were interested in doing the same things I was. This way, I could do what I want and add members as they were lfg or not.

Today, I find folks I add to my group enjoy grouping with me, they become friends and we do things. I get comments like, "it is hard to find decent groups". I think this is because those of us who box are mostly a bit more into and serious about the game.

I am all for a no box server but I am also very much for a sister server that would be for no 3rd party.

Realize I am not against a no box server and that I am for a sister server that allows boxing but no 3rd party hacks.

Relax. Perhaps when you cross my path and I am "taking everything", simply ask about sharing spawns and camps, I think you will find I am very willing to accommodate reasonable requests as I imagine are most boxers.

I personally have only encountered toxic game play from the mage bot crews, numerous times. Think about it, leaving legit boxers to deal w/ the toxic gamers on the new tlp servers really is not fair to us. Again, I am not advocating that players do not get a no box server, I am saying if they do this, they should also be opening a server that caters to everyone except 3rd party users.

This way, people have a choice as I know many, many people have no problems with boxers but have issue w/ the mage bot crews, which affect just about everyone. I might have the camp you want or rare spawn you need locked down till I get what I need but I certainly am not killing your guild`s dragons or gods like the mage bot crews.

OP mage pets and 3rd party software really ruined this launch imho. When I saw the first blah blah blah has been killed by so and so on the second day of ragefire (or whatever it was), it really cheapened everything about this being a 99 experience. You just know that any accomplishment you may be apart of as far as taking dragons and gods down is totally cheapened because some dude rolling x number of mages etc has been there and done that 20 times over already and hes hollering for a kunark release.

Again, yes I do not think it is right or fair to leave legit boxers who desire to play this way in the toxic environment that has been created on LJ and RF. Much like they had to do w/ RF, give us a second server that caters to boxers and those who dont care about boxers.

Keep in mind, many players feel that the game would still not be going, or content conquered w/o folks boxing. These single players might very well prefer a boxing no 3rd party server over a no boxing server because they can see far enough in advance to see what will happen because they have already experienced it.

There needs to be a second server to compliment the no boxing server.

"legit" = legit, it is in the game ui, there is no way around, boxing is legal and promoted.

It is an unintended punishment because it leaves us w/ 3 options as opposed to your 4.
1. Stay in the toxic environment that some of us had no idea about (I never heard of isbox till RF/LJ) on the newly released tlp server.
2. Play on live servers. If I (we) wanted to play there, we would be. Boxers enjoy grouping too.
3. Quit. This is what I am leaning towards if there is not something done about the asshattery environment.

Those are my options at this point, you would have a fourth.

4. Play on the no box server. This is not a desired option either, if I wanted to play a single char or spend all day lfg or never get anything done, I might. I do not join guilds, I realized very early on that I did not care to have others expectations hovering over my game play. So I do it my way, which boxing allows me to do.

Plus for me personally, it is more challenging, can I fight to king in lower guk at level 30? Hell yeah I can but I cant break the room, that would be another day. Ran into a farmer the day I did that, they commented they were surprised to see a grey con in the king area, much less a pc. They were impressed w/ my play, not many reg groups would even consider doing that at level 30.

Once again, I am all for a no box server but I am also for a sister no 3rd party hack server. If both can not be feasible, then allow the community to vote because I feel many no boxer people are being short sighted. I have seen many people say there would be little to no raiding on live servers w/ boxers. If this is true than there might be some short sightedness going on w/ people wanting a no box server.

It would give the anti-boxer crowd a chance to "put up or shut up" about boxing.
It would give DBG some extra revenue to do some good CS and run in-game events, etc.
I like the idea.

Just need to clarify what most of us are meaning when we say no-boxing server. Going by what Holly said, there would be one client per PC, to allow families that play together to all be online at the same time. This alone would remove the use of most 3rd party software, or make it damn difficult from what I have read. If you want to box multiple accounts, you still could, but it would require you to run each client on its own PC/laptop.

Alternately, DBG could save a LOT of hassle, grief, and time by reinstating the PNP and hiring a sufficient GM staff. Swiftly investigate reports of botting, training and KSing, and reinstate a first in force rule. Make use of the 3rd party programs that let people do this a bannable offense and do something about detecting it more easily. Yes, it's players that are generating the toxic environment, but DBG is at fault for enabling them.

EDIT: Corrected some spelling issues.

Hi again Tin, I get what is intended. I have absolutely 0 intention of firing up an old computer just to box a second account. Said old computer would take money to get working again, alternately I could buy a new cheap one. Neither of those are acceptable as I have a beefy enough computer to handle the four accounts I can barely handle as a boxer who inputs each and every key stroke to each account.

I agree, it is the DB that is enabling this toxic environment which is why the choice I am leaning towards at this point is walking away, again. I am still here because I am hoping this works out for the best for everyone and I am able to find a happy medium in playing.

Unfortunately, it does not look like DB is interested in responding to my topic.

We're going to go ahead and close this up. There aren't any planned changes to current policy.