Raid zones instanced?

Eh, how do you know a majority want it if there hasn't been a vote?

How? The hardcore would be subjected to the same lockouts as everyone else. Everyone would actually be on more level ground in terms of gearing up with an instanced method. As it stands only one hardcore guild will get loot and that more or less makes everyone else a 'casual' because they have no chance at getting it.

Yep, caught that after I hit submit, edited my reply.

Well then we've (DBG) already deviated from that example with the instancing of lower level content so...

Yea, was just commenting on someone that was acting completely instance phobic implying Brad would save them.

See this is something I could possibly stomach. Its way better than this current terrible instancing.

Lol... best joke ever.

Nice try, but no this is not the same person. I wish I was working a network admin job in 03 and could play on the clock. But like some people here i work a Mon-Fri job.

Its really quite baffling to me why this point engenders so much debate. People who want to compete can still compete, people who aren't interested can still play.

The only reservation should be whether its possible/cost effective to make these types of changes. DBG has shown in the past week that it is completely capable of competently executing on lots of issues that we were previously told (to the sounds of much incredulity) they could jot do. I imagine creating expeditions with lockouts could be done quite cheaply considering the technology is already in place and would just need to be applied in a different setting.

Several options are available to you:

Dont put on a vote. That won't be useful. Better to enable the raid instancing on one server and see how many people flow to that server. Let people buy transfers.

Second, set up a go fund me or kick starter. Send us the bill. Tell us how much it would cost, I'm sure some members of the community would kick in a few extra if they got to ensure years of play at their own pace.

Im sure people can come up with other ideas/you guys can figure out what strategy would maximize benefit for everyone. But I promise you, if raid instancing isn't addressed, this project will not have the staying power it could. I, for one, am back. But only as long as I'm not being blocked by ubers and can progress.

To me it sounds like you are the QQer. All the players are asking for, is to be given an opportunity to raid a target. Raids are pretty much all endgame EQ is about. You mention competition yet I don't understand why you are competing with other players in a PvE game. If you loot a Cloak of Flames first but in a month someone else from a worse guild gets a CoF, does this take away from your experience?

You think that it takes skill to sit in place for 30 hours waiting for a target to spawn? We all know EverQuest takes patience, and we aren't necessarily looking for instant gratification. What we do want, however, is a way to raid with friends without the drama and the trains. The instancing of all levelling zones was a huge step, but there aren't even AAs to work on at 50 in classic. The truth is, there is such a small amount of content to go around the most crowded server in EverQuest history, and many people fear that the population will suffer if there are not enough NPCs to go around.

You don't even need to account for the massive population difference, the increased gaming knowledge, technological improvements, and QoL improvements to see that this is ridiculously high demand/low supply to see that the request for raid instance implementation in TLP is a reasonable one.

Let's take the Cloak of Flames example from above, in a non instanced scenario and assume that in 3 months (estimated time necessary til Kunark QQers reach fever pitch) that this server has seen 12 Naggy kills, and 50% of it's population of 4,000 (so 2,000 people total) are now max level (50). Even if Naggy dropped CoF 12 times, and went to a level 50 each time, that means that ~0.6% of the players have acquired a CoF before Kunark.

Well now, won't you feel special if you are one of those 12 players, won't you!? You can look down on everyone else simply because you had all the time in the world and got lucky? Oh, give me a break. I'll turn the tables around and call the "anti-raid-instancers" the entitled ones. They believe that they are entitled to all the CoFs, and they will laugh at you for even think you can get one without paying. Or they'll train you if you try. And then after your target is dead, they'll offer to sell you the CoF at a "bargain" price of 5 kronos.

I do know for a fact that less supply (or the same supply but with higher population) = more demand = higher RMT prices for items (especially like CoF), so I can definitely see someone wanting to take advantage of that. However, with a number like .25% of players acquiring an item over 2 months, you can rest assured that your precious RMT trades won't deflate too much (if at all). But other than that, I don't really see what all these calls for "competition" are for. In my opinion, actual competition would be more like letting two guilds go after progression separately (aka on equal footing with instances not a race to spawn points) and see who finishes first.

Also, please stop acting like these players with all the time on their hands are more talented gamers than the rest of us; it's simply not true and couldn't be further from the truth.

There would be no harm to instancing raid content and add raid lockouts. I for one support it. Whether it's something they can do, or willing to spend dev time doing, that's another story. They have EQ Live players harping on them for content, so I suspect they'll be spending most of their time working on the upcoming Campaign. But if support for Ragefire & Lockjaw continue to be high, they may be forced to do more for us. They've done a pretty good job listening and supporting the progression servers so far, and players have turned out in record numbers as a result. I hope they want to continue this win/win relationship.

EQ's old contested content ways are outdated, even EQ Live don't bother with contested raids anymore. I hope they'll find a good solution to the contested raid issues. Being inclusive and allowing more players to see raid content will only prolong subscriptions and longevity of the servers.

This person gets it. This needs triple bolding.

I think instancing for classic is actually making the game playable.

The fastest levelers here leveled on the backs of mages. A class that was always way overpowered in this era. When you are leveling faster than anyone else, it almost gets easier as there is no other competition around you.

I played a mage in Classic/Kunark/Velious, and had Epic 1.0 through the entirety of Velious. The class was so powerful I found it hard to justify playing a game again like that in the same setting.

Now the majority of the 'end game' people are mages, I actually cringe whenever I see a raid mob die at this point =/

If raid bosses required skill then their difficulty would be the "competition". You would be fighting to become the first guild to overcome this content.

Instead the competition is the ability to keep all gear for a single guild?

Instanced raids allow all players to raid. Players have more to do. The more they have to do the longer they play. The longer they play, the more they pay.

Saying instanced raids doesn't work...well look at the competitions sub numbers and look at how their 4 tiered raid system works.

I'm all for instancing dungeons and stuff like that, but I kind of like the idea of only the best players being able to take down the biggest baddies. I'm not a raider any more, so I never expect to see this content until I can solo it in a few years, so maybe my opinion doesn't matter as much. If anyone can raid and kill the bosses, it doesn't make having the loot as special or rewarding.

If the bosses were hard not everyone would be able to kill them. The only thing that makes them "hard" is spawn time. Well that has nothing to do with how good of a player you are at all.

Yep. I want to see the server population hold or even gain enough ground to add more servers. I never thought I'd witness a revival of a game this old, but we really have a chance here if good business and community decisions are made.

Non-instanced raids only brings in new casuals that play casual and then end up leaving once the casual game is done. I want to see more good raiders/endgamers come to the game, but the endgame needs to be accessible for everyone for that to happen. I want to see the community continue to regrow. (DBG hint: some actual advertising once all of this stuff is ironed out - put some of these extra profits to good use.)

Agreed! I am only logging on because of this server. If I can't get groups or do raids I'll stop playing. MMORPG gaming has changed too much since 99 and most of us have changed since 99. I love Everquest, I have spent more time on it than is probably healthy.

I also love being able to experience ALL content on WoW because of instanced raiding. I know I get to raid 6 hours a week and that is why I keep a subscription. You let 1 guild have the entire reason I log on because they are "better"? Prove they are "better" players. If raids are instanced with lockouts and top tier guilds are the only ones who can topple the bosses then they are "better". Currently they just have more free time.

Indeed - I've been trying to hammer that home for a while - people aren't going to continue paying when there's no content for them, with raiding effectively inaccessible without ignoring their work/family/whatever they'll be done even sooner.

Ahh crap I replied to the wrong thread... cross-post!

To me it sounds like [the people calling for ZERO raid instances] are the QQers who don't want to let anyone else to join their club. All the players are asking for, is to be given an opportunity to raid a target. Raids are pretty much all endgame EQ is about. If the endgame is not accessible simply because of time (as opposed to actual difficulty), the casual players will come for the casual game and leave upon reaching 50. However, I want a healthy server with actual competition (I realize the classic game as it stands is not difficult, but GoD at 65 was extremely hard).

Saying that competition is being able to stay in the same place and monopolize a spawn point, or exclude someone else from somewhere, then I'd say you're just creating a false sense of competition. [You] mention competition yet I don't understand why you are competing with other players in a PvE game. If you loot a Cloak of Flames first but in a month someone else from a worse guild gets a CoF, does this take away from your experience?

You think that it takes skill to sit in place for 30 hours waiting for a target to spawn? We all know EverQuest takes patience, and we aren't necessarily looking for instant gratification. What we do want, however, is a way to raid with friends without the drama and the trains. The instancing of all levelling zones was a huge step, but there aren't even AAs to work on at 50 in classic. The truth is, there is such a small amount of content to go around the most crowded server in EverQuest history, and many people fear that the population will suffer if there are not enough NPCs to go around.

You don't even need to account for the massive population difference, the increased gaming knowledge, technological improvements, and QoL improvements to see that this is ridiculously high demand/low supply to see that the request for raid instance implementation in TLP is a reasonable one.

Let's take the Cloak of Flames example from above, in a non instanced scenario and assume that in 3 months (estimated time necessary til Kunark QQers reach fever pitch) that this server has seen 12 Naggy kills, and 50% of it's population of 4,000 (so 2,000 people total) are now max level (50). Even if Naggy dropped CoF 12 times, and went to a level 50 each time, that means that ~0.6% of the players have acquired a CoF before Kunark.

Well now, won't you feel special if you are one of those 12 players, won't you!? You can look down on everyone else simply because you had all the time in the world and got lucky? Oh, give me a break. I'll turn the tables around and call the "anti-raid-instancers" the entitled ones. They believe that they are entitled to all the CoFs, and they will laugh at you for even think you can get one without paying. Or they'll train you if you try. And then after your target is dead, they'll offer to sell you the CoF at a "bargain" price of 5 kronos.

I do know for a fact that less supply (or the same supply but with higher population) = more demand = higher RMT prices for items (especially like CoF), so I can definitely see someone wanting to take advantage of that. However, with a number like .6% of players acquiring an item over 3 months, you can rest assured that your precious RMT trades won't deflate too much (if at all). But other than that, I don't really see what all these calls for "competition" are for. In my opinion, actual competition would be more like letting two guilds go after progression separately (aka on equal footing with instances not a race to spawn points) and see who finishes first.

Also, please stop acting like these players with all the time on their hands are more talented gamers than the rest of us; it's simply not true and couldn't be further from the truth.

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Because he's operating off funds directly from interested, would-be players of his new game.