Cases where game masters will not intervene

Mel -- very well said. Having had my druid mashed up with another druid when I froze and Old Man crashed way back ... my toon emerged with half the gear of a karana druid and half my tunare gear. After petitioning, emails going back and forth, checking the logs, they put my druid back the way she was prior to the problem. Took almost a week but it is possible.

Coming from a company that took responsibility for security issues when the error was theirs and made good I think they were standup guys unlike some.

There was a class action lawsuit on top of what SOE provided? Yep, someone looking for a little more - there always is. Wasn't it something like 5000 SC?

So, SOE informed people about their CS policies in 2001. There's an EULA . Computer security on your computer and doing your part to safeguard your User ID and password is your responsibility. Good luck with your position.

(I hope Daybreak does the right thing and focuses on content/doen't squander their limited resources on user preventable error, stops transfer of No Drop gear to FV, and meets the industry standard of providing restoration of characters in the state they were when they were deleted.)

From a WoW forum:
"The character would also only be restored in the same condition it was in when it was deleted so if all of it's items were deleted before the character was, it would be restored naked. Also to note, no restoration is ever guaranteed. All you can do is open a ticket and ask."

...there being both company and user responsibilities in these things neither side should be hypocrites and point at the other party's responsibility without acknowledging their own.

Many times i compare lawyers as vultures lol they seems to thrive on anything that can bring them client even trying to convince them to go to court. Sometimes it's for good reason but sometimes i question their motive. Maybe because i live outside the U.S. i sometimes question their morality.

I am really glad someone is here to keep me up to date on World of Warcraft's character restoration policy, multiple times, in multiple threads. Why is that game relevant again?

IIt was a response to the charge that SOE was hypocritical.

SOE Daybreak rightfully met it's responsibilities when their negligence resulted in them being hacked.

IMO Daybreak has a responsibility to:
Discourage exploitation
Discourage theft of characters and sale of their in game assets
Insure its UI notifies players what they going to do if they click a button and doesn't lead them into error
And meet industry standards with regard to item reimbursement and character restoration.

Players have a responsibility to protect their account information, observe normal computer security, and not expect a company to undo every player preventable error.

If one is going to note Daybreak's account security responsibilities don't dismiss player responsibilities.

If one is going to invoke CS/every company in the industry (and people have multiple times in this thread) then you kinda have to live with what companies in the industry actually do.

To be honest I'm not surprised whatsoever with the changes and I'm actually quite perplexed (and disturbed) by the level of outrage exhibited by some posters. I love EQ just as much as the next person, but some gamers really need to get a grip.

CS is being out sourced and automated (where possible) across this industry and many others.
The "newly" formed company has to show immediately that it is taking decisions to return to profit, which is what we see with this trimming of CS and the previous staff restructuring. This is pure survival in a challenging modern MMO enviroment.

I agree that character deletion and cascading guild leadership should be automated with the intended CS changes, but I'm also realistic that it might not happen due to the coding / time involved.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3012419/...ans-today-the-alarmingly-high-cost-of-bad-cus

I have a grip, on my wallet. I fully appreciate that Daybreak has to turn a profit. It's a business after all, and I want them to profit and thrive. It doesn't mean I have to simply accept crappy customer service either just because another business does things a certain way. When I spend my money, I want to know that I am going to get a quality product with support. If I get that, I remain a customer. If I don't get that, I don't remain a customer. It's a simple as that.

Some of us play on FV.

Game companies are just a bit different than American Express. The industry standards and reasonable customer expectations are different.

From a WoW forum:
"The character would also only be restored in the same condition it was in when it was deleted so if all of it's items were deleted before the character was, it would be restored naked. Also to note, no restoration is ever guaranteed. All you can do is open a ticket and ask."

Doesn't sound like it would fly with American Express at all. Yet in an MMO it would discourage exploitation, encourage keeping account data secure while not penalizing an owner who deleted a character by mistake, avoid the duplication of rare items and currency, etc.

I play EQ for the content and virtual relationships with dependable players that show up and don't give their accounts to hackers. I don't play any game for the customer service. Never have and never will.

Since I've submitted roughly two petitions in the last five years and keep my account information secure, why would I? I know what and who is in my computer. Do you?

Do you think posting a link to an article about importance of CS is really an argument of any sort? I'm was not refuting that CS is important in any customer facing business. Although arguably that varies depending on the type of business (EQ isn't as customer facing as say a bank or a supermarket as players do not regularly need to interact with CS in order to interact with the product) What I was merely pointing out is that EQ is a declining game and due to that they have to cut costs. Modern MMOs have a lot less CS and a lot more automation than what we've had in EQ for years. Would you rather that they pull the plug now or in 4 years? As essentially that is the situation. Shouting about this change isn't going to alter the reality that there are less resources available. It is not as though that they have pulled all CS entirely, but you'd think that is the case by how some players are reacting.

Personally, I'd be more concerned with the ever shrinking amount of content in each expansion sold to us for the same price than this.

What is becoming very apparent based on a series of bad decisions, the leadership doesn't know what they are doing.

Instead of fixing issues they made, they keep jumping to new ones. A simple word of advice, if you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging.

Ruven

You're conflating outrage with confusion. Virtually no one is shocked that there are cost-cutting measures. This is The Wrong Measure. Thomas Payne's 'A Modest Proposal' kind of Wrong Measure. EverQuest is not robust/bulletproof enough for a CS policy this hands-off. There are rewards for unrepeatable quests, accounts aren't protected by two factor authentication except at an additional charge, list goes on: the ground work just isn't there for a draconian don't-bother-me attitude.

No unrepeatable quest is so crucial to continuing to play and enjoy EQ that a bug preventing completion would have a dedicated player quit. Besides, I suspect (I'm an optimist) that a bug (likely to be in a current content quest since old quests have been gone over repeatedly) carefully reported in able to repeat it detail would result in it being fixed and possibly a grateful dev flipping a flag so the reporter could try again.

While two factor authentication is nice to have available IF you are not sure you can do normal computer and account security or you are particularly concerned about it, it's not required.

1. It IS available to those individuals.
2. Normal computer and account security is adequate.

Most one at a time hacks are performed because:
1. User ID and password were shared
2. Computer and/or account security were very inadequate adequate

There's saving cost and there's making decisions with the blinkers on. I can understand not helping with many things (e.g. accidental sales and char renaming), but restoring an account? No. I mean, how long does it really take a GM familiar with the systems? 20 minutes? Probably not even that to restore a backup. Yet how much lost revenue if that person cancels their sub / doesn't buy from the marketplace? That's not counting any lost goodwill and reputational damage with other customers. If it makes people this pissed off / concerned I think that's a good clue it's a wrong'un decision. I'd like to know what other GM tasks they think are going to bring in more revenue.

If the achievement rewards for, for instance,
CleaningUpCazic-ChasingCazic-The Depths of Fear(depending on class),
Greater & Legendary Hero of the Call,
Lesser-Accomplished-Greater Answerer,
Paragon of the Darkened Sea
et al,

are claimed and then lost by whatever means previously hashed over, they are not recoverable or replaceable by in-game means. The list could be doubled in size trivially by including augment rewards, their being on all lists of best-in-game and similarly unrecoverable.

Depending on class, the epic 2 is a big effing deal as well, and unrecoverable if lost.

If there is no way for an account holder to fix or resolve an issue through some form of ingame mechanism, then GM's need to be there to fill the gap. Being forced to re-roll a toon from an honest mistake or a hack is unacceptable.

There are many items that maximize a character that are not repeatable if a character is deleted. Cleric, Pally, SK, Necro, Bard, and Sham 2.0s are pretty valuable last I checked. All the clickies/augs/trophies from HoT-TDS Progression are pretty valuable. Tears of Alaris is surely something I'd never want to lose forever. The clicky for completing Hero's Journey achievement is something not repeatable and surely something I wouldn't want to lose if I lost my character. Plus there are tons of sentimental items people don't want to part with. There is more to this game than having items "crucial to continuing to play." There are memories, experiences, souvenirs, etc that you lose if you lose your character/items.

And how can you say that a bug - even when hashed over multiple times - will be fixed? We still have people not being granted raid currency upon wins and the problem continues each day. This problem also doesn't get resolved (the GMs don't reward the currency anymore) for no reason whatsoever.

You continue to support Daybreak yet they are doing less than nothing of what you claim they will do or actually do. You bring up the 2011 hack, but this is 2015. This is 4 years from when Sony got hacked and reimbursed accounts/characters. Who is to say they will do that again? Back in 2011 they also granted lost items/characters. They don't now. You also bring up Blizzard's way of doing business. Their way was much similar to SoE's. But now that is also gone. It seems no matter the instance, you won't be getting your character back and we have recent examples to prove that. Atleast with Blizzard you have the ability to get it back - after they review any possible exploitations - but you'll get it back. Now in EQ, you'll get an empty "I'm sorry...feel free to start from scratch!"

Before you post some nonsense again, a good quote to think on is: To assume is to limit the mind to one way of viewing, when by our nature perceptions should be infinite." That is extremely telling of you as you are so very limited in only your way of thinking. You completely disregard all other viewpoints. If you cannot understand that first one, here is an even more simple one "Always assume that assumptions are wrong."

None of which are crucial for a dedicated player to play and continue having fun in EQ.
Besides, I suspect (I'm an optimist) that a bug (likely to be in a current content quest since old quests have been gone over repeatedly) carefully reported in able to repeat it detail would result in it being fixed and possibly a grateful dev flipping a flag so the reporter could try again.

Didn't Absor recently respond in this very forum to a reported bug (it wasn't a bug, just a somewhat confusing way of consuming something)? He surely did.

Do I value some of my items (despite most of them becoming less than the best on a yearly basis)? Of course.

That's why I perform normal computer and account security. What is someone saying when they don't? They do not value their items.

Before people post defenses for people who can't be bothered (some of this stuff is priceless - not to them it isn't), think.

Their actions speak louder than your words.

You keep babbling on about computer responsibility, bootstraps, and account security, but don't seem to grasp the idea that accounts can genuinely get hacked. We get it. We already know this. This isn't the point.