Test Update 08/12/2014 - Pet Changes Round 4

Some of them, see below from the previous thread.


https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...t-changes-round-3.212775/page-13#post-3113920
For anyone wondering, em20 should be the same as a player tank wearing full RoF T3-T4 raid gear, which is apparently supposed to almost die vs 2 current content trash mobs even tho the player tank is popping just about every active mitigation it can to survive?
Pets are underpowered still

Tell me what is balanced in the group game? Every class has their little niche. So you don't see Tanks moloing named? You don't see certain classes that can take out multiple mobs with ease while others cannot. The fact a pets can be an alternate to tank because tanks are so rare in the group game causes people to be in an uproar?

I think most mages would just like the tank pet to survive 2 even con group mobs while using the group EM focus while using a healer merc. There have been some videos of EM20 pets doing well against 2 yellow con mobs while having max AA, etc. I personally think that should be hard to molo, where any one thing would tip the balance making it fail.
Some other people are worried about pet tanks in raids, which seems a bit silly, because SOE can just make mobs ignore pets and solve the problem. That's not something they have to spend any time on trying to balance a pet for raid tanking. They can toggle the mob to ignore pets until the expansion becomes old content, then toggle it back if people want to run pet tanks in old content.
If you make it impossible for mage pets in particular to tank 2 even con mobs in group content, you have the chance of forcing some players to leave the game. I don't know what the population of the game is, but I don't see many general chats where it's a tank looking for group vs other classes. Mage pets might not be the 4th tank class, but they're an option in caster groups that shouldn't be forced from the game.

What is balanced in the group game: player tanks, dps, CC (except for argin hiz )

You see raid geared tanks molo'ing named, group geared die because they don't have the dps and their discs run out. When their discs run out they get killed quickly.

Certain classes that can take out multiples are those with backup, and usually raid gear, and not on a constant basis. They can only do that with the right abilities up.

EQ is not a game of archetypes. Enchanters aren't a DPS class but are fully capable of sustaining mage level DPS in groups. Paladins aren't a healing class but are fully capable of healing themselves at the level of a druid/shaman. I see no issue with mages asking for warrior level tanking abilities in specific situations. Pet tanking is limited to ranged groups and has plenty of drawbacks. It is a perk that distinguishes pet classes from other 'DPS classes' with higher DPS.

I've never played a paladin, but I think around the lines of slay undead, undead-bane nukes, stuns, self-healing ... can paladins slow undead mobs as SKs are able to?


As to pets, if we are talking raid-level focus, I am quite sure, these should produce raid-level pets. I dont want a pet that tanks as well as a CotF T2 raidgeared warrior, that's what warriors are for ...

But I do believe that a pet that can withstand punishment of a raidtank of the last expansion (e.g. EM XX / XXI should be around the lines of a RoF T3 / T4 tank).

If you want my (lore) explanation of why I feel it is only fitting for a pet to mitigate damage better while player characters tend to avoid a lot better, feel free to look up my post in the original thread again.
Also, I have no problems if our pet defensive abilities get switched to a more actively managable version (as tank classes have as well).

Lastly, I can only once again point out that good tanks dont grow on trees! I've NEVER seen a group that refused a warrior/paladin/shadowknight in favour of tank as pet (at least not, when said WAR/PAL/SK did not slack big time). Normally, it's the other way around - There are just not enough tanks in the game and many groups depend on pets as tank as the next best solution before waiting hours for his most holy tankiness to log on (perhaps, with luck).

So basically, everyone who has an edge in game has, according to what you wrote here, access to raidgear.

Why should a magician, with access to raidgear, not have an edge as well?

To once again remind some people on the drawbacks of pet tanking:

- ranged DPS only, any player in melee range gets swatted
- negligible self-healing ability of the pets
- positioning of the mobs is double as dependant on NPC pathing, sometimes resulting in quite funny hopping around
- close-quarter combat is often impossible with a pet tank because of #1
- if someone overaggroes the pet and pulls the mob into the group ... see #1
- multiple pets dont neccessarily mean better tanking: hard to believe but pets dont agree on who should tank beforehand and every pet tries to grab aggro, much to the dismay of the healer in charge.

I've seen a lot of OMG, Mages shouldn't be able to solo/molo nameds in higher end zones. Danged pets! Off with their heads!

My main is a Mage. I have a pet. I love him dearly. He is literally the reason I am alive most of the time. I do spend a lot of time alone in game so rely on my pet and merc to keep me company. I don't want to see him castrated any more than anyone else does.

That said, I don't see anyone pointing out that you can put 2 Mages side by side with the same pet, same armor and such and the same amount of AA's and one will be able to solo/molo that named and one will not. Whether that named bites the dust or not doesn't depend solely on the pet. Player skill and knowledge also has a lot to do with it!

I know this thread is about OP pets and my post is a little off topic but we need to remember that the pet doesn't make the Mage or any other class. We depend on them a great deal but the person behind the keyboard is really the true conqueror.

And you don't think this applies to pet classes because...?

I've never seen group geared mages molo rares in Argin-Hiz. I'm sure there are rares in T2 that are, in fact, moloable by pet classes, but the moloing difference between pet classes and tank classes is not night and day and tips in favor of tank classes with raid gear.

Course, when the pet nerf crusaders bring up this angle they never talk about tank classes. Only 'other DPS classes' ie rogues and berserkers aka the worst soloing/moloing classes in the game. Because that's where pet classes ought to be in their minds, never at the level of tanks. Funny isn't it.

I have a question for all the tank types in here saying pets shouldn't be as good as a group geared pc tank. Can we at lest have them as good as a t5 tank merc. I mean it was sad today when on test the healer merc could keep a tank merc up even on a unslowed mob in t2 cotf but couldn't keep my pet up.

I mean war pets were the 1st tank mercs. They tanked stuff for us and we healed them(before healer mercs) and dps the mob. I don't want war pets giving the disp and stuff that a merc tank gives. But should not the pets be as good as them at tanking/taking hits.

Yes, I have to choose where I go to solo/molo effectively. I can't be expected to waltz into the end game zone and solo effectively. I pick and choose where best to do so. As I stated previously, use your pet against grelleth yellow cons, or multiples in threshold. Those are still worthwhile xp mobs. However I suspect that most will not want to do that becasue they know they can solo effectively there but they want to do it at the end zone of the current expansion not the last one even though the /con of the mobs are the same.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Holy Guardian type ability for mages where their pet tanks better but their DPS takes a huge cut. Want to tank like a tank...have all the good and bad that goes with it.

What arch type do you think mages belong to? what should they be balanced around? I thought they were a dps class.

Actually I would say the molo'ing difference goes to the pet classes as they have been able to do it faster for longer, because their pet was a tank, they can dps, and they could help heal/mitigate dmg if needed.

I personally haven't seen or heard of anyone molo'ing a named in argin hiz. So why even bring that up?

Mages and necros have been different from rogues and wizards from day 1 of EQ. Who gave you the right to suddenly 'balance' them by the same standard of what they ought to be capable of solo/molo?

I repeat: EQ isn't a game of archetypes. It is a game of classes. Back when necros' only role in raids was to pump mana to clerics, which archetype did they belong to?

Nice writeup ... I will ignore the fact that you suspect that magicians dont chose their battles. As stated multiple times, magicians suck big time at crowd control or pulling - chosing your battles is what makes a successful molo/groupmage.

As a maxxed AA magician, im not after "worthwile xp mobs", though ... im after progression. I dont "waltz into the end game zone and solo" there. I make my way carefully, chosing my battles, splitting mobs when neccessary and possible. My regular group depends on me when our tank dies or we get unrootable/unmezzable multiples. Guess what, my pet does not live long on life at this moment with me in full support-mode, and from what I read, it's bound to get worse even. If I could, I would support my pet even more, sadly, I dont have a wide array of (meaningful) tools to do.

And please dont say "mages solo in end zone of the current content" - They can't period. Molo, perhaps to an extent, but soloing is not possible there.

*cough* Two vanilla-flavored modrods, please, and then go out of the way!

While I'm not a fan of the nerfing trend, mages are not giving themselves anywhere near enough credit in my mind. Was out in revamped MM last night, a group geared Mage was out handling 4 or 5 trash mobs at once on his own. Granted he preferred 1 or 2, but he could do it. Had a pleasant chat with him, he mentioned he found it hilarious when a Mage of the same level came in and had to run out of the zone from 2 mobs. As a very very few magicans have already said on these threads, it is about player skill, not pet base stats.

That said, the world isn't really ending for all pet classes. A little darker maybe, a few more 96 % resses, but not ending. Maybe you will even learn how to play a pet class better! Go off and rage quit if you need to, game will still be here when you return.

Go to valley of xorbb and get 2 even con mobs. and try to tank them using your pet. Give it a try, i'm curious how you do.

Is there a specific reason why you keep sending other players to low-tier content of the last expansion?
Only because you can't do anything after that molo, does not mean that no paladin could do that. Interestingly, I often see knights molo or box in current content, so please spare us with your envy ...

No i really think they believe they should be the Number 1 Tank, Several have already said there a Tank Class (due to there pet).

I honestly do not think they should Tank any Better then a Ranger with sword and board, Heck they will certainly out dps a Ranger just sword and board. They want to be best solo, super in groups and super at raids. Pet classes certainly have the best of all worlds maybe we should re-name Everquest PetQuest!

They were also useful for dragging a mage's corpse past all the trash in the raid zone to rez the mage and set up a coh chain (the only need for a mage on raids other than crack rods).

I'm sorry I was just going with the tier the raid item is from. Didn't realize raid pets are supposed to be equal to the same tier of LAST expansion, maybe?

If people are getting multiples they can't handle, then they are not choosing their battles very well. As a paladin I play to my strengths. I don't go into AH expecting to solo/molo named/yellow cons multiples.

So don't solo the progression. Get a group together to do the solo tasks in progression. Especially in the end zone of AH. It seems like mages think they should be exempt from bad things happening to them. If you get multiples mages have tools to deal with them as do I as a paladin. However they are not gauranteed to work against all mobs which is why I pick my battles and don't expect to be able to solo/molo in end zones.

They..or you?
There was a video linked of a mage alt soloing mobs in the end zone. Ah here it is:

Molo:

AH is the end zone of current content.