From the perspective of new or returning players, they do not have the time or ability to grind from 85 to 120. New and returning players want the fastest route to 120. Veterans want the fastest route to 120 for their alts. Between Achievement/Overseer XP and Mob XP, everyone will always choose the former. The game's population is aging or working. Gone are the days where you can spend 5-8 hours a day on EQ. Ironically, the people for grind XP are probably retired or working from home, or have the ability to augment their kill speed with near-current gear and 3rd party software. Should people who want to grind get a boost? Absolutely, I think Lesson should be buffed to triple or quadruple XP (at current mob XP levels). We can also use high level hotzones (up to Level 110). These changes follows the culture of adapting to shorter gaming sessions without the risk of dramatically changing the current XP model.
I think you forget that people actually want to play the game, not log onto task adds and click a few boxes in overseers. The new progression style + phone game is LAF.
Most people playing the game, instead of complaining constantly on the forums are already 120 and now working on AA's. Try it sometime.
1. How many players are unemployed teens or 20-somethings with the time and stamina to grind for hours? This is not the good ole' days where you came from college or work to grind Lake of Ill Omen and Frontier Mountains for 8 hours to go from Level 29 to Level 30. 2. I actually used to side more strongly with the grind. I wanted people to sacrifice, "pay their dues", and "earn their keep." I wanted to feel special and powerful. However, after experiencing the convenience of Achievement and Overseer XP for my alts, I have come to appreciate the new XP system. The barrier of a grind-centric system would make catching up to current content nearly impossible. The high technical barrier (gear for DPS and tankiness) to reach level 120 would ultimately turn new and returning players away. EQ's population would simply shrink: too much time and effort required for an old game. If you want the old system, you are still 100% free to grind for normal XP and AA XP. I do feel that they can cater to the grind and short play sessions by buffing Lesson to triple or quadruple XP.
I am married with 2 kids and 2 huskies. I work 45-60 hours a week and never had a problem getting to max level even raiding 3 days a week. So don't give me that nonsense about how p2w is a better option. I would absolutely make the bet that this new method of leveling is a turn off to the majority of people considering returning. In fact, I know it is. And the funny thing is, that one of your talking points was that this method of leveling takes longer than grinding (AKA mass killing), but now you are telling me it's faster. What one is it?
The barrier from Level 85 to Level 120 is massive. The people who would benefit from this massive grind barrier would be account sellers who can turn around automated XP accounts for $$$ from discouraged players. Where did I say Achievement and Overseer took longer than grinding? I made the point that new and returning players do not have the DPS or tankiness to burn down mobs or mass kill. The grind is not conducive to new and returning players (or playing multiple alts).
You are raid geared. You can easily burn down or swarm mobs. How does a casual, new, or returning player feel about a massive grind? Let's apply the grind analogy to (largely optional) The Tears of Alaris: sure, some people don't mind leveling up the Tears. But imagine if the devs gated game progression (capped levels) behind a Tears of Alaris-esque grind? It would artificially extend content but it would be absolutely disastrous for the health of the game. World of Warcraft had shifted to massive grinds for progression but it was met by pushback from its players.
Why am I here? Everyone in my group guild has quit shortly after launch of ToL stating exp problems. That is why I am complaining. What do you think would be easier leveling a charter up? Completing each expansions progression (ToV onward) or picking a zone above the expansion your are working and grinding it out? The answer to that question is easy (grinding). But now, grinding is no longer a possibility. Also, can you tell me what is wrong with upping the grind exp and leaving the rest the same? No one in this thread is asking for anything to be nerfed, we are just asking for level exp to be more realistic for those who choose to grind.
Correlation is not causation. That's your personal opinion. Some people loved hells levels and grinding Tears of Alaris but most hated these aspects of the game. 1. Based on the arguments that Overseer and Achievement XP is "not content" or poorly implemented content, you are signaling to the devs that they should be nerfed. 2. Devs do not want to oversaturate the game's XP with players taking advantage of both paths. This is human nature. (I support a moderate option of buffing Lesson to 3x or 4x XP every 20 hours).
I dinged 120 with both my mages on Christmas Eve. I did 1 mission and finished merc and partisan. I used an xp potion once and I used my lesson for accumulating AA's as I leveled. I even finished TBL progression so I could get my jann veil. XP was non existent doing that. I only used Overseer when I logged in. That was usually about 5% a session. I don't pay to end those instantly. I got to 120 fairly quickly. (Not record speed, but that's ok) I did this with 2 mages, nobody else except the mission. XP IMHO is fine. But yeah, if you're on for an hour once week, it will take awhile.
All of them that quit specifically stated same exp design as ToV. And it’s not a matter of opinion. Trying to find groups for old out dated progression is going to be significantly harder to do than grabbing merc (maybe an alt) and grinding exp.
Were they making money on accounts? How many casual new or returning players can effectively negotiate normal mob damage and spells in TBL, ToV, CoV, and ToL? They are getting a leg up with Overseer XP and server community help for Achievement XP. You admit to being raid geared. I would argue that you have a rather idiosyncratic and skewed perspective on grinding. It may be easy for you (high, raid-level DPS and tank ability) but terribly difficult on re-acclimating players. Between RMTers quitting the game and honest players being discouraged and quitting by a massive grind barrier (Level 85 to Level 120), I’d rather lose the RMTers and tear down the grind barrier.
We are all growing old. I suspect most players want a chance to experience most of the 16 classes without the grueling mob XP grind. Overseer XP and Achievement XP is a faster, less taxing means. Interestingly, this multi-class approach allows players to experience additional content: epic quests and other class specific content.
I'm pretty sure that the people whining about low XP grinding would have no problem if they didn't see people leveling faster than they are. It's all about "Not having fun the right way" IMHO and for what it's worth most everyone I know just hates grinding on low blue con mobs in old content. You have new zones and you want to see them, doing progression lets you do that while getting levels.
Grinding is old fashioned and worn out. 20 years of the same mindless grind is enough. Exp through progression is better. And besides, you still need to grind for AAs. No need to double it up and force people to grind levels as well. I have other things to do than grind for hours on end.
Maybe it is the recycled experience that people hated with TOV. Forced engagement with a garbage task system. Again, I heard of people trying to pick up with entry quests in EW only to find that garbage STILL bugged two years later??? WTF....
Content design for the current level expansion is broken for the group game. There’s absolutely no reason to get the group gear. Why? Because the expansion is required to be beaten before any worthwhile upgrade is usable. I can legitimately wait for the second part of the expansion (the next expansion) until you’ll need to start gear upgrades. Most casual end up doing progression, just not in any particular order. They give it a shot, and if they lose, the work on old content while they level/gear up. But now you can’t do that anymore.
I'll note this thread is almost 300 posts in, and despite being asked multiple times the people complaining about mob XP continue to: 1. Lie and claim mob xp was nerfed--when plain math has repeatedly shown XP per kill increased both in ToV and ToL over prior expansions (what increased was total exp required per level from TBL-->ToV.) 2. Refuse to say how fast they think leveling should be, they only say it's "too slow." 3. Continue to claim you can't "reasonably level" from grinding, without explaining what reasonable means. See a pattern? To his credit the only person who actually piped up with a specific desire was Corwyhn, although his was inconsistent. He said it should go back to "how it was before", which I took to mean the fast exp that was available in the "popular" easy XP grind zones in EoK (the final 105 expansion) and RoS (the first 110 expansion), both of those expansions had very easy to box (particularly for players of lower ability) zones that were very good for exp compared to other content in EQ's history. Corwyhn indicates he wants to go back to that but doesn't think it's reasonable to level in a few lesson sessions--the problem is, for the people who actually have taken time to properly learn how to box, learn that DPSing in EQ is mostly about group aDPS and coordinated use of cooldowns and etc, can literally get max level in the 100-105 and 106-110 era...in a few lesson burns of optimized play and maybe one 4 hour potion. So the one person who has stood up to argue for anything has basically admitted he would be fine with people being able to hit max level via grinding before midnight on launch night. Nothing intrinsically right or wrong about that position, it's a matter of opinion. My opinion is it was far too easy to quickly level in some of the extremely easy to XP in EoK and RoS zones, and I don't particularly mind they've gone in another direction. I also don't mind that while keeping grinding a 100% viable method of leveling, they give good bonus XP for doing Partisans / Mercs / Hero achievements.
The only people who are supplying misinformation is on your side in form of straw man arguments. The item you labeled 1 is a perfect example: The amount of exp required to level + mob HP has been inflated significantly. It takes small groups/box significantly more time to grind from 115 to 120 than it did to go from 106 to 110 by grinding only. Any argument is here is just dumb. This new approach to leveling is encouraged by making level grind miserable. If this was NOT true, then we would not be here in the first place. 2. This has already been answered. The same amount of time it took for other expansion such as TDS and RoS. 3. This question is redundant - The answer is the same as in question 2.
