Charm is too strong

Nobody loves an enchanter who can't/won't charm.

precisely my point :O) which is completely logical when charm is as strong as it is

I did play an enchanter to 60 without charm, then to 65 with charm. It was back on 2000 or 2001. Instead of charm I did things like crowd control in dungeons. If I got a good group I would pull. Goal was to always have one or two locked down in camp so that people could finish one and move to another. Back then charm was a liability because it broke a lot and the mobs would actually kill you. Then PoP came out and we were charming everything. As a matter of fact, charm is why we respawn without a full bar of mana on a death. Back then we would go solo somewhere like BoT and when mana was low, suicide for a full mana bar. At the end of the day, if you had bodies that still had rez timer, you would get a rez. If they rotted, you didn't care because the full mana bar was worth more than eating a death. Imagine that, eating a death just to get a full mana bar.

You want something to do and feel like you have to be overpowered to do it? Cool. Here is a super easy solution that works on all classes that can charm and doesn't affect the power of charm at all. Let charmed mobs take a nice chunk of the exp. Maybe not 50%, but at least 25%. At one time they had something like this in place so I know the framework is there. I think it was like, if the pet does more than 50% of the damage, the group gets only half exp or something. Just tweak it and if a charmed pet does any of the damage, drop exp gained by like 25% or something and if the pet does over 50% of the damage, drop exp gained by 50%-75%. I mean, if a charmed pet is out damaging a group, then obviously the group isn't participating right? No way could a charmed pet out damage an entire group... right? (I still think having charms last 1-2 minutes is a better idea though as it keeps the enchanter working for the high damage they do).

You say the OP level goes away after a few expansions. Who cares? TLPs are only there for a few expansions and then the next one starts. Just the release date of these new servers has Mangler looking rough.

For all of the people saying don't call for a nerf. Where were you guys when they nerfed mages and necros? Where were you when they nerfed Shadow Knights? Oh right, it wasn't a nerf then, it was a balance change for the good of the game. Well time for a balance change for the good of the game.

One last thing. Those that think I just want something nerfed because I'm jealous. Not even remotely true. I will be one of the ones using my charmed pet to take an entire camp. I play enchanter, cleric, and mage on every TLP. This time I just won't have the mage.

Also, maybe bump rogues so that they do at least as much damage as a monk, possibly more if they have ideal conditions. I feel for that class, even though I would never play one.

Sorry but you are wrong here. If they had a class with a button that said, press it every hour and give everyone in the group two levels, not using it wouldn't make it less overpowered. If bards could still aoe entire zones by themselves, not doing it wouldn't make the ability less powerful. Same for shakerpaging and whatever it was that SK's were doing to kill entire zones. I didn't play one so not sure what it was.

Meredyth you are actually hilarious. Not once has anyone ever in this thread mention removing charm. Not once but every single one of your replies talks about like lowering the power of charm would remove it from the game. It is actually kinda funny because you can't engage people in the discussion of lowering its power you can only speak in the absolutes so no compromise can be achieved. Once again nobody is saying charm should be removed.

We just think perhaps it should not be able to do as much damage as it currently does for how easy it is to control. Can you re-read that sentence before you go on I just want to make sure you realize that it did not include the removal of the charm spell.

Now what do you think would happen if the power of charm was reduced by 40-50% do you think charm would suddenly not be used even though it will still probably out damage most forms of player damage? Of coarse it will still be used but it *shock* just won't be as powerful as multiple players at once. Now can you respond without throwing out straw-men about removing charm?

Planes of power mobs took you from full hp to zero quite literally more than twice as fast as pre-pop npcs. The tools used to stay safe like point blank stuns or other groupmates paying attention already existed. How was charm a liability in luclin and then suddenly not a liability in pop? Answer: it wasn't. You were foregoing tons of kill potential because your groups were apparently scared and wouldn't change their cowardly view of charm until pop added easy travel and graveyards - NOT easier charming.

Allow me to add my name to the list of "some" people saying it. If you were an enchanter and you did not charm you were a bad enchanter. Skilled players and top guilds knew how good charm was and used it. The general population was simply not aware of how good it was at first and took a while to catch on.

Also, as a cleric main currently, I do try to make sure I am using spells like inter/contravention as appropriate, marking npcs with damage shield and/or spammed wild ramp, throwing my swarm pets on crucial burns, etc. Back on fights like tunat where every ounce of damage mattered and could mean the difference between hitting an add spawning phase or skipping, I would throw divine avatar and a swarm pet. On msha races I was casting nukes and if people were deliberately pushing sometimes even do respectably on a parse at that. No cleric is likely to ever top a parse but if DPS is needed more than healing in a situation and you are a "healing only" cleric (there are many) you're a bad cleric... just like any enchanter who can't or won't charm is a bad enchanter.

Complete and utter nonsense. Even if charmed pets (necros and druids too) were nerfed by 50% dmg they would still be the strongest class for a long time. It's like people keep forgetting they have the best CC, haste, and mana regen buffs. Oh yeah and the only class in the game with AE stuns which in itself is a thread for another day, various other utility spells, illusions. And to whoever the person was that kept saying homogeneous, ridiculous, look at the spell list.

[Classic-PoP Chanters] If charmed gets nerfed, there's no reason to bring an enchanter. What will they bring? Mana regen? You can camp an alt an log it over whenever group needs refresh. Their damage is the worst, the cc they provide is the strongest, but completely unnecessary in most settings. The ease of splitting or single pulling right now destroys the need for mez. You don't need it right now and groups aren't crying because they don't have it. Pulled too many? Five other classes have root, and telling your group to focus casters isn't hard. Slow also makes everything just as trivial. Bards would replace the need for enchanters entirely. Charm and cc are all chanters are good for, but lets be real. Charm is the only reason to bring an enchanter in a non-ae group. If you reduce xp gain, charm is killed, no one brings an enchanter. If charm stayed ahead of the pack in dps, even if slightly, people will still complain and cry that their autos and one button macro aren't "parsing" the highest. I'd wager most people who want charm nerfed do not invite enchanters that don't use charm currently, because why would you? Other classes do everything else better. The expectation that chanters charm for their group is absolutely prevalent. Because that's all they're used for to most groups. The returning players are the only ones who don't use charm and those are the people who don't get invited to groups right now. That's what will happen to the class when you nerf charm. You barely find enchanter mains after PoP. Mez is not good enough on it's own to bring an enchanter and that's all they'd be good at after a charm nerf.

If charm gets nerfed, they need to have their damage buffed at least or provide some beneficial buff, like + x% experience bonus or something along those lines. Charming is a fun mechanic. You have to pay attention. Someone mentioned reducing how long charm lasts, that's perfectly acceptable, but I'm certain it won't be enough to please the nerf-crowd. Charm is by far super strong in the early expansions, that isn't disputable and saying it isn't op is a joke. There shouldn't be a nerf to charm without a buff to enchanters to go along with it.

Nice straw boy post bro. Why don't you play a damage class instead of a support class? Enchanters shouldn't be doing the damage that they are doing right now.

And that about sums it up. It's not that someone is using 3rd party software to abuse game mechanics, it is all just a matter of opinion. Or, someone is having fun the wrong way and something must be done about it....

Clarity.. You mean arguably the strongest spell in the game.. Rofl ?! Even if you just have a chanter do nothing but clarity the group every 28 mins and then AFK they would still be stronger than a lot of other classes Lol. You conveniently left out the best resist debuffs, stuns, slows, and nukes. Have you even seen or heard of an AE group? Get out of here.

Agreed AE damage is way too high.

• C is strong but the strongest spell in the game? lol.. what about Charm.. Oh..
• You missed haste (one of the main ENC spells)
• ENC nukes are weak (in comparison)
• It would be a very boring game if all the ENC did was cast Clarity. We already have a /mel bard
• (@Pawtato, by the way, he means using AE stun with 1-2 other ENC with some Wiz to AE nuke stuff down)
• Charm isn't nearly as effective as the vocal minority want you to believe without a cleric (or to some extent a Druid) .

There's nothing strawman about it and you should take a class in philosophy to refresh your aging fleeting memory. You asked for a discussion and said charm is too op and should do less damage or change resist checks. I'm saying that's fine, but the only reason to bring enchanters is because of charm. Of course pure dps should be doing the most, but you act as if enchanters do anything viable other than charm right now. Why is a dps pulling aggro of a tank? Why is a druid completely useless? Why do rogues, a pure single target dps, do less than a the joke that is monk? You argue as if it's your mission to get charmed nerf and anyone who disagrees is a target for your pettiness. You aren't going to convince anyone and as it stands more people want charm to remain. You didn't even read my entire post lmao, I never said chanters should be doing the top damage, im saying that they need a suitable replacement for the void that removing charm would create. I offered an xp bonus in lieu of charm, another option you could've agreed with as that has nothing to do with damage and fills your support role desire, but you can't even acknowledge that. You're just wanting charm nerfed and you won't take anything but the nerf for an answer. You don't want a discussion lmao.

I left those out simply because enchanters aren't the only ones who can provide that utility. Shamans can slow and haste just as good, but also heal and they do more damage. You'd fill your group with a shaman over an enchanter everytime. Haha, yes I've heard and been in AE groups. So are enchanters only going to become ae stun bots? Again, I can camp an alt chanter and stick regen on the group if that's all they're good for. Bards are a better alternative to chanters without charm. Tash? Mages can malo and come with an offtank (that they can heal) , damage, ds, and cc and theres just as many if not more of them. I didn't mention ae groups because that's not what most groups do. What are they going to do before that? Leech off other classes until theyr'e useful for a few weeks and only play in AE groups or be subpar? They'd become the pity class like rogues are now.

It's overpowered and that's a fact. If you say "I like it the way it is, even though it's overpowered" that's a totally understandable statement. Charm is fun. Nobody said to take Charm away. It needs to be adjusted though

The only reason to bring enchanters isn't charm. That being said I agree with 0 of what you said. They are a support class and do it really well. You act like balancing charm means it's going to be removed. LOL

Although right now you are required to charm if you play enchanter. Just because it's busted.

You say that it's BS, but have you played a solo character on one of these TLPs? I've forced myself to do it twice, so I've seen the state of the group game firsthand, and it's one of the big reasons I've come to believe that OP charm is bad for the game.

Was obviously talking about spell buffs in regards to clarity. It's boring in comparison to what.. auto attacking champs lol? We're talking EQ here it's not the worlds most interactive game tbh. As far as solo charming not being effective.. Have you seen enchanters solo PoFire at all? My first time eq friend was able to do it easily on selos. Tons of outdoor areas with plenty of room to kite solo with enchanter charm. Even if you do die the exp gains far exceed what you would lose.

• Please clarify, are you suggesting that people should pay to play a class that clicks one spell every 10-28mins and that they should feel like they are contributing??
• I didn't say that solo charm wasn't effective. My statement was very different and clear: "charm isn't nearly as effective as the vocal minority want you to believe". I stand by this. If you can't tell the difference, then it's your issue and not mine.
• One acedotal story about one ENC in one zone on one server some years ago doesn't represent the meta by any stretch of the imagination.
• A serious question. Why do you (and many others) have to exaggerate so much to try and get your point across?