Two good arguments against classic.

I think the people who are against starting in classic have a point.

There are two good arguments against classic:

1) The argument that watching the same movie over and over makes it boring, no matter how good the movie initially is. This applies to games too, if the servers start in the same zones, with the same quests, the same epic quests, the same loot camps...people will get tired of it.

2) The argument that starting in classic leads to casual player bleed. I think this is true, classic isn't exactly a casual experience, nor is Kunark. There's a heavy XP grind, limited gear choices, a far too heavy reliance on raids and epics later on, etc.
There are specific expansions where casual players are allowed to thrive, expansions like LDON, DoN, DoD, TSS etc. Players are not competing for camps in these expansions, players aren't forced to buy gear from krono traders, but can easily group up and get rewarded with gear and XP for their efforts from missions or quests. Classic on the other hand has very little content that actually caters to casual players.

The development team chooses the XP rate, Agnarr is fine and people love the XP there. Classic zones have nothing to do with it.

Here I've been waiting to use this one:

Go play on live then and you can make a new character and level in whatever zone you want!

Oh that only works for boxers.

You sort of cut and pasted my post and left out some arguments.

I think classic is anything but a casual experience. I will some up some of the arguments I have seen, and ones I thought of myself.

Classic is difficult for casual players because:
-XP is slow (I will concede here that dev can adjust this like you said)
-travel is slow, zones are large
-corpse runs can be challenging and difficult
-several spells are difficult to obtain
-there are very few options to attain gear, gear choices are simply limited
-the newbee armor quests have not been implemented in classic
-krono generally takes over the market on classic TLP servers
-there are no point based options to attain gear, like in LDON, DoN, DoD, etc
-there tends to be a heavy reliance on epic gear, this is alleviated during DoN where players can finally get comparable weapons to epic weapons without doing their epic

This then ties in to my (2) second argument that this leads to casual player bleed early on.

I never thought I'd see the day where casuals wanted to start at GoD and do vendor gear Lol.

Who wants to start in GoD? GoD wasn't mentioned in this thread I think.

If those 3 expansions were bread and cheese, they would make a GoD sandwich at Arby's.

I don't get your point, but ok.

You don't get that GoD is between LDON and Don? Quote came in dark, but I know you that.

Just seems ironic, everyone cried about instancing classic so they could do the raids, now we want to skip it all together.

Just because people play casually does not mean they don’t want a challenge, nor does it mean they don’t want to raid.

Granted there will be some that don’t want either of those, but eq being the game it is, and people who play eq knowing this fact, they are in the minority.

For the most part, “casual play” in everquest just means time constraints.

Faster exp is all that is really needed to make a casual server work well. And there are still many people who are perfectly happy playing through classic etc (though personally I’m not a fan of kunark)

Ok, but no one is suggesting that one starts in GoD. There are specific expansions that have a gradual leveling experience and support casual players at the same time.

OOW - DoN - DoD is one of those years where casual players thrived, because the point based system from DoN and DoD allowed them to attain gear in a straightforward manner, at the same time OOW has a lot of recommended gear (without a required cap), which allows anyone to use the gear.

TSS - TBS is another example, where there is a very good leveling experience in TSS, and at the same time a point based system in TBS allowing casual players to attain gear through missions.

That is not what I have seen.

One of the major problems is that TLP servers (that start in classic) tend to be gear limited, especially due to the existence of Krono. You end up with casual player bleed, players who's XP experience is largely limited due to the lack of gear options (unless they buy krono of course).

One of the ways to alleviate this is by having gear options, options that exist in expansions like DoN, DoD and TBS for example, where gear can be attained through missions.

These expansions largely aleviate balance problems that manifested themselves through gear limitations from classic-gates.

Classic raid content is trivial and even the most casual guilds can down all the bosses with ease. How is gear a limiting factor whatsoever? And how does Krono even apply?

I've never seen any of the problems you are claiming exist with gearing being an issue in the slightest.

I wasn't talking about raid gear. I thought that would have been clear when I mentioned casual players and DoN, DoD, TBS missions a sentence later.

Noones wiping on naggy cause all 7 of the SK's they don't need for this raid don't all have their FBSS and efreeti ring yet.

Sounds like we have people who still can't BIS their toons even though classic is well documented and now even instanced to ensure equal opportunity. Pro tip= Worry about gear in Velious. It don't matter until Velious and you can quest it all.

This is exactly how I feel. I would consider myself a casual player and that's the server I am hoping to join, but still want the feel of EQ. After reading so many different opinions on what casual should be I am definitely worried that I will be in for a huge disappointment when the rulesets are released. I didn't have the time for Coirnav xp and unlocks so I passed on the server, but increase the xp and maybe make 4 month unlocks and that solves my main concern.

-I don't not want to see some later expansion start for casual (Personally I hope classic/kunark open together, make it a little easier on those concerned about starting over yet again and open up more of the world for low leveling, but still allow for those you haven't done it or love classic to have close to the same experience, plus get to AAs a bit quicker).
-I don't want a single player type server that several people have pushed as casual, where they want to just box their group (or groups or even some want motm off to be able to raid easier by themselves) and not deal much with others. I passed on Coirnav, due to the xp as noted, but didn't want to start on live and just level along mainly by myself so I waited the year for these new servers).
-I don't want extreme unlock times or I fear the population with not sustain a long run (faster xp, and even FV loot rules would help casuals who need to step away from the game for a bit get caught back up and decently geared in a hurry).

Kind of went off topic here and not that my opinion on what casual should be means any more than anyone else, just getting worried about how the serves may turn out.

Oh hey, people got sick of Quill, the boxer, posting, and now a new person is posting with similar posting habits and the same asanine request to start in whatever god awful expansion no one cares about.

Just stop.

I hope both new servers spend 6 months in classic, just so you won't be there.

I am not "Quill", nor do I know who he is, you can ask a mod on this forum and they will tell you I'm not. I am not "new" either, my forum account is 7-years-old, much older than yours for what it's worth. Click my name and check the date. (it is much older in reality but this forum made the server move 6 years ago).

Before you insinuate I am another poster (who I don't even know), kindly just ask me, I would have been more than willing to reply to you, thanks.

Oh look, someone who makes posts about awful ideas telling someone else they have awful ideas. Isn't it ironic?

Don't ya think