Re-tuned HAs

omg page 57 pages surprised they didn't close this thing yet probably don't want everyone quiting lol.

Andarriel

I 4 box. Gribbles are relaxing, let me get everyone aaed up. I am happy to pay for that. Getting pushed into Skyfire (or anywhere else but where I want to play) I don't like. Turned off automatic renewal on the 4 accounts and two expire day after tomorrow. I 4 box so that will be it for me logging in. I will keep an eye on the forum here for the feedback on the the next patch as it affects the HAs. If its the "Thanks For Nothing" feedback like on the Fell Foliage "Retuning" well the other two toons expire in a few months.
Is the loss of my 4 accounts for DB a big deal ? Of course not. Is it possible there are other people who feel the way I do and don't bother to come here to the forums, you can count on it. Will some of us come back, probably. How long will it take (ie income that didn't need to be lost), what percentage will come back? What does losing that percentage that doesn't come back (the ones with a bad taste on their typing fingers) gain DB? Loss of income, diminishment of reputation and shriveling of customer goodwill.
But hey they can probably survive on the income from the progression servers. Old code, we can't write new stuff that Live Server people like but we can spoon out the old stuff. Not something I would be proud of and rather a blow to getting new content.
Will the raiding guilds care, probably not, but I am in a non raiding guild and this last week it has been echoing with the sounds of crickets.
I don't see the return on investment from the retuning of the HAs and I hope to see them restored as they were.

They're trying really hard to get everyone to quit though..

I'm always ok with Daybreak getting less revenue! Keep it up developers, need more nerfs.

The change you need to do is remove them from the HA system (the ones required for progression/achievements) and used fixed level mobs with the same script.

No lower levels were doing these HAs anyway, and no higher levels are doing them for the rewards they offer, so just turn them into regular instances. The HA system has no purpose in the last three expansions other than to stop people from doing stuff they were not able to do when the content was current.

Were any low levels really doing TBM progression instances?? Why on earth were they made HAs in the first place?

If you saw my later post, the Nay-sayers and doubters did get the better of him and he closed the thread. You talk about them not coming here and thus the rabid responses, but (and I am too lazy to search for the post, but I think it was in this thread) Prathun (I think) posted that he would have spoken to us in more detail but the tenor of the crowd was too hostile (yes, I am paraphrasing). Sure, they had gone the whole weekend without addressing the situation and that probably led to the frenzy of the masses. But I contend that the reason for the silence (based on the Prathun post) is because of the fervor of the negative comments. Ngreth proved they will dialogue if we show the proper demeanor. And this thread only shows they will not if we do not.

Again, we can agree to disagree in the causality. You say the lack of response caused the hostility. I think the tenor of the thread caused the lack of response. We can agree that there has been a tremendous uproar and it has not received as much feedback and we would like. I, though, am thankful for the feedback that we have gotten. I would have liked more detail (thus, I have been hypothesizing) as to what happened and why. But they will let us know when they let us know. I am looking forward to the changes coming to test so that I can test them. I assure you that I will leave feedback (whether positive or negative) that will be inviting to conversation, not confrontation. I wish each of you to do the same.

Your analogy is not a 1 to 1 comparison to what is going on here.

It would be more like this...

I cannot believe what I am reading here. The community didn't ask for this retuning of HAs . But the HAs have been retuned by DB, without an urgent reason. The fault for this bad patching is on one side, the side of DB. Now you write here that the devs wont talk to us (paying customers) because we are unhappy and say it here. Sorry, before retuning of HAs, communication would have been nice.

Page 58, makes me think that alot of us have...

The game is here for you to play, not the other way around. They don't ask the customer for most of what they do. No urgency? How do we know what the problem was? Maybe the bug in the code was the reason for the massive serverwide lag...or the issues with the AB server. I will assure you that the devs don't mind hearing your opinions (even when they are criticisms) provided they are constructive and serve some purpose other than insulting them directly or indirectly. I will 100% agree with your comment "before retuning of HAs, communication would have been nice.", but even there, you acknowledge that it would have been a courtesy, not a necessity.

Just for my inner peace, how close do we need to be to the release of the "tweak" to get the details that were mentioned in the Roxxley post?

Making major gameplay changes without consulting put Destiny 2 on death row. Making major changes to basic gameplay mechanics that has been in place for over five years is just stupid and only going to result in shrinking player base.

The Destiny 2 changes are atrocious, and that was in spite of player feedback and similar things causing issues in D1.

These are not *major* changes to gameplay. They impact a small part of gameplay for 4 expansions. The egregious aspect is that it does impact progression. Additionally, the RvR is skewed by this change, however, it was prior to the change in favor of the players. IIRC, someone posted getting a 103 spell rune while doing the TBM missions for lower level toons.

I agree that it is inconvenient. I agree that the changes should have been conveyed prior to the change (just like they "advertise" HH zones). I agree this could have used a bit more seasoning on Dev/Test instance. However, I do see practical application within the game that could lead to more robust expansions in the future and a longer life for the game. Therefore, I think the change will ultimately be good for the game *if implemented to scale correctly.* If it is not, then, well maybe, Chicken Little, the sky *is* falling.

Then what’s a major gameplay change then? If I can molo a HA at 105, but cannot complete it 110 with a real group, that wouldn’t constitute as major gameplay change?

Viewed from a different perspective, the HAs were not meant to be completed molo at 105. That is not "working as intended" as they described the HA experience in CotF. Thus, the change is not a major change in game play, but instead, movement back towards what was intended (HA group 3 or more including mercs which means at least two toons). Poorly executed perhaps and most likely a change in direction is coming. Why did it take so long to address? I suspect that the increase in power with RoS and the AA accumulation which they likely track prompted a response.

YMMV

They were designed for a pair of players and mercs. That is exactly what I meant with molo - so yes they should be beatable at 110 that way.

If they hadn't made RoS balanced for raid difficulty, with poor mechanics and very low experience so that casuals wanted no part of it, older instances wouldn't have been any problem in the first place.

Is there something in writing from the Devs that state that this was how they designed it to be? (honest question)

It wasn’t about the raid mechanics. We didn’t have the DPS to kill the named and since the loot and exp sucks, 1/3 of group left.

Yes there is - I believe it’s qouted in this thread.

There is, much earlier in the thread if you wanna search. This is from Zam on their intro page to CotF...
"Heroic adventures are customized shared tasks (1-6 players) that take place in instanced zones and scale in level, difficulty, and loot quality (based on the highest level player in the group) down to Level 85 (note: with the initial release, they scaled down only to Level 95, but a Letter From the Producer in December 2013 indicated a change). They are designed for groups of 2-3 players and their mercenaries, and shouldn't take an average group any longer than 45-60 minutes to complete.:
I'm pretty sure Zam got this straight from SOE.