Or they can just do whatever and nerf/tune it later. That seems to be their plan for everything else it seems. Almost two years waiting is insane.
Sorry but every suggestion here has been bad so far. Maybe if there were more necros that chimed in instead of the same people that post on every class thread, we would actually come up with reasonable solutions. Vanlaven, the splirt line is a bad way to go. The use of any extension focus/AA will only contribute damage on the front end of the DoT. Meaning you get a DoT that lasts about 30 seconds longer than the base spell with no extra damage at all. Raiding necros that use potions and have better ear focus will suffer more than a group geared player. The Wounds line with the doom effect is a bad way to go. The whole point of the DoT consolidation was to free up debuff slots, whether it was mentioned directly or not. Adding more of these type of DoTs only furthers the problem. DoTs stacking with themselves, or increasing debuff slots, or using a different buff window for DoTs are all good suggestions. They just all require extensive coding. Aristo has no control over this. The idea that DoTs will become less efficient despite any change to them because of tradeoffs is also ludicrous. Where was the tradeoff for druids becoming the best DPS class, despite also being a healer and adps? Tradeoff only exist in a perfect world where every class is already balanced. <Francisco quote this so you can flame me. I will say it because nobody else will. All the DoT classes that have been revamped need to be relooked at, and in most cases should be readjusted. The balancing of DoTs is not difficult like everyone here is making it out to be. Take the total damage per tick that necros can cast in 20 DoTs and compress that down into ~12 DoTs (whatever the goal is here). I would even go slightly less than the total dmg/tick because of decreased ramp time and increased downtime to cast our crappy DDs/swarms/utility.
Its not complicated at all. They just didn't do what they said they were gonna do. Druids and shaman have basically everything a necro has just less dots. But rather than factor for that like they claimed they would they gave them 20-35k based dots. When they should have gotten 5-15k dots at the most. Making some dots that shaman and druids have also qualify for Chromatic Haze boosts was not a good idea. The devs should not be touching a thing AA or item wise for necromancers. They didn't retune a single aa or item for any other class despite many sharing the same abilities. All they need to do is follow through with what they said they were gonna do and thats tune revamped dots based on what a class has. If a class has twincast, shared crit mods with necros, high crit rates, multiple dot lines, etc they should have had way smaller dots than what they were actually given. They did not do this for druids, enchanters and shaman. They ignored what they had for dot tools pretty much and just gave them giant dots. Druids, enchanters, shaman and necros if they ever get to us should never have seen a castable dot above 15k base, unless its limited to group only and not raid. And only 1 dot for priests and enchanters should have been that big, 2 for necromancers and then everything else needed to stay sub 7k unless it was a long duration doom effect. Right now druids and shaman all have multiple castable dots over 15k despite all their tools and thats why they do what they can do. I think each of these classes stands to get a 30-50k base dot in RoS which is just insane. Enchanters only have 1 or 2 this big currently so it hides itself better but they still tuned their dots multiple times more than they should have. Simple would have been doing necro revamps first to actually solve the problem and get an understanding for what you were doing. Now they need to do what necromancers have been explaining all along, sub 15k dots and limit us to 10-12 dot lines. They also need to go back and redo the wrong they did for the other classes as well. Or you just perpetuate priest classes exceeding actual dps classes in many settings. Every dot they redid for enchanters, druids and shaman was made to powerful and needs to be reduced.
Seen you post this a couple times in a few threads. Chromatic Haze / GoHT only boosts DoTs that use SPA 79 for their up-front damage. Only Druids, Enchanters, and Beastlords have a relevant SPA 79 DoT. "Combo DoTs" that have a multi-part spell sequence (like Shaman Chaotic whatever) don't count. The change was made to fix an issue with CH/GoHT that allowed those classes to utilize 100% critical hit rate on the nuke portions of those abilities without expending the CH/GoHT charge. Only the damage portion of the effect applies to DoT portion of those abilities, the critical hit chance effect is wasted. It's actually detrimental for Enchanters to consume either of these with the DoT portion of Drown. Our nukes are much higher base damage. Druids can definitely utilize this, combined with really careful timing and proper synergies, to attain high burst numbers off their big bad fiery nukedot. /endthreadhijack
Make any dots that cant land then add a buff on the caster to increase the next Dot in damage and make it a x3 DD.
What they "should" do and what they will do are probably 2 different things. They already broke necros once during cotf beta iirc and we were best burst and if done right could sustain 300kish indefinitely. They quickly changed that and abandoned the nerf/improvement they were planning. I don't mind that our revamp has taken longer, seems like it will be less painful in the end. I would just like an update......
You're right. It's extremely simple. They are just dragging the necro revamp out as long as possible out of spite. It has nothing to do with the potential to propel necro dps into crazy high numbers if it is not done carefully and tested.
Correct, the actual tuning is pretty simple for each dot and more than likely not the hold up. The hard part is repeating it 250 times for all the dots from 1-105 and 3 ranks for every dot post 75. That is a mountain of work to do. And no one formula works through them all since various dot lines are added in over time or go ignored for awhile as well as what tools come into play. At 70 they might very well be adding bonus damage to the standard dots necros had but at 105 like was explained they shouldnt add bonus and just consolidate. If they are gun shy its because they winged it with priests and gave them giant dots when they had most of what necromancers have.
I'm glad I posted lol. To be fair, there are things like...... https://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=44483 Which if you have the time to cast over and over and over may just ramp up the dps to very high levels, and if you only have 12 dots to cast vs 24 or so dots to cast, you'll easily get double the mileage out of it on top of having each counter do much more damage. So how much less would you go? Consider what has happened with these other classes. They all experienced strong increases in dps to be fair here. I've seen druids and shaman near the tops of parses on raid events, and sure the shaman wasn't popular with melee dps groups lol, but consolidation obviously increases power a bit. If you do this same process to a necromancer, it's going to up the necro's dps. That's fine with me, let them have a bit more dps, but if they're spiraling out of control and end up doing ridiculously more dps than every other dps class on raids (as they already were the strongest dot dps class as far as dots go BEFORE the change), then it could be bad, and the dps a good necro could pump out with the changes needs to be considered. I'm a firm believer in let it happen for a week or two, but I don't doubt it would go on longer than that.. long enough to be damaging heh. And if this does happen and now every raid force NEEDS 5 necros then so be it. Druids and shaman sure had their day here. But if they end up doing like twice the dps of the next dps class in a sustained fight, then that's sort of too much. With the amount of dots necros have and the new amount of free time they would have in a fight with this I could easily see them becoming perhaps too powerful in a reasonable context. There's also the matter of the skill ceiling of the class. I like that necros seem to have a very high skill ceiling. I don't play one, but the ones I know that are good are very good, and the bad ones... well they're fairly bad. Let's say they took out the next version of the for blood line completely, and all necros could do outside of dots is cast lifetaps. If you make 90% of what the class does be to cast 12 dots, vs 24 or so dots, then you've drastically lowered the skill ceiling. The fix shouldn't be to remove most of the challenge to playing the class. So what's your view in that area?
My hero forcallen did the work for the devs and posted it in beta section. ALL the work. Probably less of a boost than should be given.
First I'm fairly sure that's not how the splurt line worked, giving additional ticks for fractions of the base dmg at the beginning of the dot. It should have given either a couple of farther increased ticks at the end or simply a couple more ticks of its max dmg. Secondly the wounds idea wasn't that we should keep all current dot line and have more wounds dots added as it sounds like that's how you interpreted it. It was to, after having consolidated 20-24 dots down to 10-12, put a substantial portion of several of the dots new higher dmg into a doom effect at their end. These may well be bad ideas but not, I think, for the reasons you are stating. As far as the increased free time from casting fewer dots I don't have a good solution, but a bad one might be to simply double all the casting times lol.
Menown's right. Do not post ideas like that. Better to post nothing than post a bad one. This is exactly how swift dots got nerfed. Deja vu.
I didn't know that about splurt and splurt and such. Could have sworn it worked the other way but oh well. The wounds type stinger still seems viable anyway. And the casting time thing was a joke. Not to be taken seriously really. i would think the inefficiency of our nukes would make spamming them while whenever we didn't need to be casting dots cause a loss in dps in the long run due to not having mana to reapply dots later. Having played all the way back in lock-in era I don't neccessarily think a little down time is such a terrible thing tbh but that's just my opinion. But is that just the extra ticks from our aa dot extension that get applied like that to splurt type spells or detrimental duration focus too?
Necros have been bringing ideas to the table for years, yet there's been zero response from anybody at Daybreak. It's like they're not even listening, let alone thinking about a fix.
Its been a long time since I parsed out splurt spells, but menown is right. With extension aa's/gear, you'd get no damage for like 30s before seeing 12 dmg, 24 dmg, etc. Splurt worked great at level 51 before aa and gear. Now, not so much.
Hmm well that rules that idea out then unless they wanted to recode that type of spell and I doubt that. What about making several of our consolidated dot lines do a significant portion (65-75%ish) of their dmg in a stinger/ doom/ wounds (what ever you wanna call it) type effect? Assuming that made sure the stingers were long enough duration to get focused and removed that rediculous nerf I believe they implemented on our twin cast burn aa that doesn't allow stingers to proc it since they are listed as 255 spells iirc on beta it seems like that could come out to the desirable dmg total while maintaining that back loaded dmg that is kinda signature for necros as I understand them. And I know some people are hoping to squeeze in a buff to up front burst but I gotta say I really don't see it happening nor do I personally believe it should but if they DO want to tune up our group dps that's kinda what swifts are for. There is really nothing they can reasonably do to our normal dots to make them do good dmg in sub 30s fight as far as I know short of coding entirely new effects for us.
You're ignoring the fact that a few necros can cap a mob's debuff slots and cause millions of damage and tons of necessary debuffs to bounce...thus making the necro look good while simultaneously making everyone else look worse. Necros are not in a good place right now, period. The parses might look acceptable but the effect they have on the entire raid force (and the necros own quality of life) is complete garbage. Then there's the necro's group performance. Never mind, why do I still waste my breath on this issue.
A few? should be safe with 4, iffy with 5, issues for sure with 6. Either way, as far as limiting debuff slots goes, a revamp will do nothing but allow me to start using lines I haven't touched in a decade (I'm looking at you disease/splurt/lifetap et al!) I honestly don't understand the consternation, the class is and has been fine for as long as I can remember
