Daybreak is suspending for training but not camp stealing.

If someone comes and sits on top of where you are camped and starts taking all your mobs that is cool. Just don't train them. You'll be suspended. Daybreak is cool with camp stealing, just don't fight back against it.

Good idea Daybreak. Support the toxic behavior of camp stealing and then take the only tools away that people can use to defend themselves against it.

What are camps?

There are none. Which is why camp steal away. Good times. Such a great game they are creating here.

DPS RACE!!!!!

I don't have any "proof" of this, but it is well known in the community that the devs do not recognize "camps" as being a part of the game. Technically someone can jump into your "camp" and fight any mob in the "camp" without breaking any rules. If you do more damage to the mob, you get it. If they do more damage, they get it.

Of course tho camps are a well respected player made part of the game to the players. The Devs may not recognize them, but players do. And most players will respect the fact that someone was there first and wait for it to open.... most of the time...

Training on the other hand is a disruption of actual game play and a serious form of griefing.

And you can fight against "camp" stealers. Out DPS them. Can't out dps them? Get friend(s) to come help DPS.

The fact that these two behaviors are differentiated, is very arbitrary. They are both more or less stating the same thing, 'I'm more important, and you don't matter'. Getting a group together, getting everyone to camp, and getting a spawn broken up is a fairly lengthy process, and can be a real pain in the butt depending on where you are. Having someone else roll in after you've done that work is equally as egregious as training.

They both cause a loss of experience, for no other reason than the other party or person is a sociopath. The EQ community, regardless of what the devs say, has decided that camps *do* exist. The first thing you do upon entering any zone is CC. The notion that training is worse, because it causes a loss of experience is specious at best, they both do.

I'm not advocating training, it's just more infantile behavior piled on top of already bad behavior, but trying to differentiate between these two forms of social contract failure is pretty laughable.

Then die when you train.

If they weren't so close to you when you died they wouldn't have taken agro. First to decide they want to keep the exp they have will lose the camp. Or you all die all day long.

If they are too high level to die, I guess you just suck it up and leave.

How I used to solve this issue on the higher end camps on ragefire was to AOE group everything. If someone thought it wise to KS out of my aoe stack, I would suddenly have a "lack of confidence" and evac the group out of the stunlock. They were left to deal with the 40+ mobs without the capability to deal with it. If they wanted to try to train me, they were just pulling more mobs for the aoe group for me. If they attempted to set up shop at one of the spawns I was including in my circuit, they ran the risk of me continuing to pull through them with a large number of mobs in tow. It worked itself out after that.

I know it seems unfair and it would be nice if people played nice but Devs have made it clear that its a DPS race..even on mobs you may have started on so what they are doing is not against TOS but ironically what you are doing is interferring with their gameplay and bannable as you found out.

Only good defense is a strong offense. Figure out ways to out dps, get friends guildies to come help or move to another camp.

Runes

Uninstalling all Daybreak games and canceling accounts is the best way to combat camp stealing. Too bad. Was having fun but it certainly isn't worth playing a game from a company that is this pathetic with customer service. Let dying companies die. Good riddance.

Can I have your stuff?

There is no such thing as camp stealing.

Whereas it is always sad to see a player go, you're complaining about something that DBG does not hold any punishment for. In your eyes camp stealing is a punishable offense, but in reality it is not. And judging by your post you actually broke a rule and trained them which resulted in punishment to you.

Here's the proof:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/dev-camp-rules-on-tlp.220283/#post-3215961

Now with that said... Nothing they state is in stone. Let's look at some historical facts.

Community: We want instanced raids.
Producers: Casuals shouldn't see Nagafen.
Community: We want them anyway.
Devs: We just implemented instanced raiding in classic.

Community: We want PoP locked TLP
Devs: That's too much work for little benefit.
Community: We want it anyway.
Devs: Yay, look at this new server we have for you all!

Devs: We just launched Ragefire!
Community: Its full...
Devs: Here's another, Lockjaw!
Community: Its full...
Devs: Umm...
Community: ....
Devs: Oh snap, check out this new queue system.
Community: Nice.

Community: Mages are destroying everything.
Devs: We can't make changes that affect live...
Community: We don't care we need it.
Devs: Pets are nerfed by expansion on TLP.

And a myriad of other issues, I'm sure you all get the idea. Make enough of a stink about this maybe even a bit of civil disobedience (they can't suspend an entire server), and we could likely see a tag system where first one to agro gets the loot. I don't see them policing camps as that isn't something they've historically ever done. But I could see this issue being solved through a bit of coding.

But it does have some hurdles. This is what it would need to do:

1. First person (or group/raid) they are apart of on agro list is the one the loot goes to when the mob dies.
2. If the person/group/raid moves off the agro list (by dying, zoning, D/C, memblur, FD, or moving too far away) then the list of those who can loot needs to clear.
3. Memblur/Charm needs to be looked at to ensure no abuse. Likely no means of fixing this. One way I'd attempt is make the mob immune to such effects to those not on said list.

This would do nothing to stop someone from waltzing into a camp and aggroing a mob first. Considering how, with the proper macro, you can target mobs before they even render in game, casuals still aren't winning that fight. Your soution solves nothing, it just moves the competition from "who does more dps" to "who engages faster". Casuals will still lose. And it will have taken up hours of dev time for no effective change. Not to mention that, in the fight to engage first other the group is likely to pull aggro. So all someone would have to do is go in and tag some groups mobs first and let them do all the work of killing the mob, then reap the rewards. Great idea. Not gonna happen.

All the changes you mention were minor tweaks. Adding a queue, tweeking some numbers in a database. Instances were big, sure, but still based on technology that was already part of the game. You want them to completely re-write the entire system that determine who gets loot, and all their work isn't going to sove the problem of people being jerks.

I can't blame them for not trying to enforce "camps". There 100% are camps in EQ. People who try to argue otherwise are trolling. Verant, Sony, and DBG all know that EQ players have "camps", it is just too difficult to enforce. Training on the other hand is easy to enforce.

With camps, who was there first? Did one group wipe and was on the way back? Were they just killing a single named mob? Only a few in the area? When they leave who gets the camp? Is there a "list" for the camp? etc etc. A bunch of hard to enforce BS that "being nice" would resolve.

Now, if you are sitting at a spot after breaking it all up and killing a all the spawns in the area for while... ANYONE who shows up and thinks "DPS RACE" is a legit tactic is simply an . I have yet to see a statement by anyone from DBG that says we WANT you to fight over spawns. Because they don't. They want people to work it out in game. For some reason people use DPS race as an excuse for why they SHOULD be attempting to steal everything they can.

You can't train your own camp. You can overpull your own camp, but who would train themselves.... Phantom Ghost had it right. Back when Ragefire had all the idiots who are now on Phini and Agnarr, people really didn't bother you much after they realize you're not a great puller and keep bringing 20 mobs into your group (who may or not be invis). EXP is not hard to come by.

Casuals don't exist in EQ. Its a made up term from the Planes of Power era that has no bearing in 2017.

According to the Devs the queue was a big accomplishment. They didn't have a system in place for it, nor any backbone code for it. One of the newer guys looked at the login server stuff and pulled something out of his rear that worked. They ran with it.

What I suggested is already in place to a certain extent. Flag the people who engaged first. I don't give two craps about so called 'casuals'. The idea is to enforce first in force as it was defined by 989/Verant/SOE for almost two decades.

It comes down to if the players and the community want First Hit or DPS Race. Everything else is nonsensical BS that only exists to deflect the argument.

I would say the true argument is respect and sharing. One of the first things people are taught as kids is apparently null and void now? Too many people online like to claim that "being nice" is a weakness. They want to treat the game like it's a life threatening war, not the game that it is.

Her, not him. Jchan is a woman.

Doesn't matter what the community wants, DPS race is the rule. Unless it causes people to quit in droves (hint, it's not) they aren't going to make any changes. People who can't win a DPS race aren't going to win a "first to engage" race. Your solution costs a lot of man hours and solves nothing. Poor way of addressing a problem.

DPS race has been the rule since RF/LJ went live, so over 2 years. If we are honest with ourselves DPS race was the rule before that too. So at best your first to engage rules, which really is just as arbitrary as DPS, was only the rule for 15 years or so, not 2 decades. DPS is the rule now. Deal with it, or find somewhere else to play. With instances and picks and all the other accomodations they have put in place to provide for the larger populations KSing is not that big of a problem. I've been dealing with the DPS rule for 2 years now, and can count on one hand the number of times there was a problem. Normally a group tries to move in and one of us gets pushed out and settles someplace else. There are plenty of places to settle. Get over the whole idea that just because you plopped down someplace for hours at a time it's yours. It's not. What you can kill is yours, everything else is fair game.

Then again, I think that hogging a spot for hours on end is just as selfish as trying to muscle in on someone else's spot. No one has the moral highground here. "I had it first" is something you hear on the playground from toddlers who haven't learned how to share.

A wise man once said "It's almost like the mechanics of the game were designed to dictate who gets the mob"

(Hint: Its who does more damage to it. Not who sits near it first)