Agnarr - to Rogue or Not?

Back after being gone a long time for Agnarr and I decided I wanted to start off trying to level and play a rogue. So I've been doing a bit of research and chatting with different people on some of the TLP servers and everyone, I mean everyone I've talked with tell me to play a monk if I want to do melee DPS.

Now when I left EQ, Rogues were one of the top DPS classes in the game. Did they get hit with the nerf stick so bad that they're not really wanted in parties?

Should I give up on the rogue and play a monk?

I have not played either of the rogue or monk in EQ before and while I'd like to try playing both, the idea of playing a sneaky backstabber that can sneak everywhere is just slightly more appealing. Thing is, it's not enough more appealing if it prevents me from find PuGs.

So do I go Rogue?
or do I go Monk?

From what I hear, rogues get a lot better after Kunark. I feel like this server is going to be populated enough, that it shouldn't be difficult to find a group at any given time. I say play what you will enjoy playing the most. I'm taking the risk with all the rogue hate too lol!

Well they fixed all the bugs to get through locked doors so Rogues will be needed.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/lfg-rogue.240046/

tldr; NO

Once they get their epic they are respectable DPS, not great, but certainly not horrible, especially on longer fights where casting classes tend to peter out badly.

There will be so many people on this server, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to get a group. At the end of the day DPS is DPS, the min/max theory crafting/parsing etc gets way out of hand, and mountains do get tend to be made out of molehills.

I will say that as a *first* character, rogue is especially painful. Monks can level with no gear and just fists if they have to, and do just fine. Rogues are 100% gear dependent, and to add to the problems of rogues not being great in classic, the gear also sucks. This is made worse by the fact that you are farming as you go, and not being able to twink the rogue via later expansion drops.

One last word, never under-estimate how awesome feign death is. Without question, the single best skill in the game, especially in classic where everything can kill you. Yah, you can sneak your way through places with a rogue, or you could just run at full speed with your monk and flop to drop agro.

/shrug. Rogues suffer from a triple whammy on this server, 1. Bad first character due to gear dependencies. 2. Not terrific at server lock point. 3. Nothing to really bring to a group besides DPS and lock pick, and other DPS classes bring some other usually important utility.

Thanks for that link. Read through it and it pretty much killed my idea of running a rogue.

While I like the idea behind the class and how it's playing so far (just about 10th level on Rage) think I'm going back to either a Monk or SK.

I also wanted to play a Rogue but am met with the same sort of feedback. It sounds as though it would be a struggle with no real reward. Unless you just absolutely love the concept and theme of being a Rogue I think there are better alternatives. But if you do just love the theme or the need to be the best you can be at a given role isn't your primary concern then more power to you.

rogues just have a really hard time of it during classic, they are even more gear(weapon mostly) dependent than warriors are.

and really, the only weapon that lets them even compete dps wise is the dagger from yael. (and the sky dagger quest, but that's silly rare and about on par with yael dagger anyway)

short of that, you are just subpar dps that cant tank all that well during classic, and cant hold agro even if you wanted to tank

it gets better in kunark tho.

Rogues are absolutely horrendous in Classic, quite literally a waste of space, but they do get better in Kunark+ and can put up respectable numbers on many fights (especially if you gear correctly). The problem with Rogues is that monks are just better in almost every way. Not to say having a few rogues in a raid is a bad thing, especially come PoP for SoS and pulling corpses, but I would make a monk over a rogue, or at least I would wait till Kunark to powerlevel a rogue. It's funny in the druid thread I said Druids will probably sit LFG longer than any class, except classic rogue.

Here are three perspectives -

1) Play what you want and what you feel you will have the most fun with. If you can have the same amount of fun knowing you aren't necessarily the "best" class in a group or guild, but enjoy your class, play it. I grouped with a rogue in particular on a recent TLP who could single pull better than most monks. The player truly makes a difference.

2) If you desire to feel "needed" play a class that acts as a backbone for groups. Tank, cleric or perhaps enchanter. DPS is a dime a dozen and in many cases will not be the foundation of most traditional groups. There are situations where this doesn't apply. I.e. Charm, aoe or pet groups.

3) Lastly, if your goal is to main a rogue, why not play a class that is able to plow through content until you can gear a rogue to suit your expectations where DPS output is concerned and then level the rogue. With the fast exp rate of Agnarr, an intense weekend play will all but max your rogue's level (if not max it). Especially when he (among others) are well geared and with higher level boxes/mains assisting alt groups. (Something I intend to do with my guild).

Goodluck and may you find the class that suits you friend.

The thread bobby linked is on the first page of this forum and discusses what you asked about. It has everything from the most fluffiest puff piece on how great rogues are, to nitty gritty of rogue players who would steer you away.

If you enjoy playing a Rogue, play one. I plan to. I won't be top dps in classic. I'll be middle of the road for the entire time on Agnarr and honestly only inch above that once i'm completely maxed out. Even so i'll be less dps most likely than less geared classic. That being said I enjoy playing a Rogue. The nature of Agnarr is that if you play long enough, you will have many "mains". Just play what makes you want to log in at night.

People keep asking this in the wrong way and it often gets addressed in the wrong way.

People say not to roll rogues on server release because of the struggle on a -brand new- server. Secondary to this, it is true rogues do not tend to get much better at the end of classic. If you don't have friends it will be tough. This isn't about DPS chart placements or something like that: rogues objectively bring little to the table, especially during the leveling process and exp groups.

After kunark it's much better and whether or not to roll rogue is an entirely different discussion. The worry of DPS # on raids shouldn't apply to most people because most people won't be try harding for #1.

But in my own humble opinion - and likely that of many others - if you want to enioy the server rush and classic experience, rolling something besides rogue will be more fun.

Don't listen to all these ppl worried about which class is best at X and which class is best at Y, plenty of ppl will be just fine with rogues in their group. If it's what you want to main, do it.

Have fun doing less DPS at level 8 than a level 2 Mage pet.

And no, it don't get better after you get BS!

on the contrary, I don't think people are being overtly negative here. rather trying to be helpful on telling people what to expect.

I have absolutely been in pickup groups during classic that turned away rogues due to how abysmal they are in that time period. they bring nothing to the group that isn't brought as well by any other class, and those other classes also bring either utility, or at least tanking.

its really just the lack of good piercing weapons in classic that's the issue. but since all rogues do is damage, its a rather large issue.

Sustained dps is pretty important while your 6 man group sits next to 2 other 6 man groups each killing just a few mobs on 20 minute + respawns... honestly past epic the dps difference is meh unless you are in a highly min/max group. If you want to be ~10% dps behind monks and have the ability to access all the locked areas of the game go rogue. If not playing min/max is going to drive you nuts, go monk but be prepared to pull until your fingers bleed.

Once you hit 61 as a rogue your only gonna be pushing 1 button now. They changed it so at 61 skills like kick, bash, and backstab can be autocast now. Rogues are good dps but from my experience on phinny everyone would rather have a monk in the group unless your doing LDoNs. As a monk the only times you really do dps is on raids and in any good group its basically non-stop pulling.

Yeah about that pulling.
It is freaking fun as hell when you want to do it. Sometimes it's fun for years.
When you get tired of it and just want to beat on a mob for a while, not even close to enjoyable.

As for rogues I hope to make good use of them should the chance present itself. The pet can hold agro from one rouge at least without any drama and it's going to do nothing but make the kills faster and take some of the dps load off us.

Kunark is only 12 weeks out and the rogue epic isn't that hard. I mean cmon.