There's always Pantheon

kind of sad nobody bats an eye at this thread even long time players i know lol think whats even worse is me as well as many others are finally accepting it and planning ahead

Very much looking forward to Pantheon. Looks to be a real sequel to Everquest. I would encourage any Everquest fan to check it out.

Pantheon looks good on paper, but having read through their forums I see it as being far worse on the CS side than either SOE or DBG have ever been. McQuaid is a great idea and concept man, but not so great of a development and implementation man. The idea and concepts behind Pantheon really do sound like EQ of old; but their still is so little out there that is anything more than that, vague ideas and concepts. No decisions have been made on class definitions, class/race combinations, or the like; just a bunch of potential players and sponsors making suggestions on all of these things.

At present, I really just think that most of the hype for it comes from the 'player' ideas of what it is going to be and not how it actually will be or the vision that McQuaid has for it.

Kinda just like Vanguard? Nothing to show and cashing in on the Verant and McQuaid names? Fool me once, shame on you...

Most MMoRPG's -
Most MMoRPG's are complete failures. Most avoid 1st person PoV which helps a lot with immersion and instead favor 3rd person which makes playing the game like watching a movie. On a car racing game do you want to be in the driver's seat or in a high char bolted to the trunk. In a Star Trek like game do you want to be in the captain's seat or playing a top down game? If you favor removed from the actor viewpoint we part ways.

Many feature Soul Caliber-like special moves (UUDDAB) and combinations (UUDDAB only following an Assassin's Nambu Chemora) rather than assume that the player knows how to fight and uses a special move (click Massive Blow button) when he sees an opening (opponent is stunned).

Basically they are console games in computer game costumes.

Which are two of the Top Ten reasons (there are eight other reasons) I'll never play EQ Next.

When they get peripheral vision in first person we can talk about immersion until then its all pretty pointless.
As for the attempt to make a game interesting by adding busy work key mashing, meh been there done that and its just a cheap con.
We have come to the point where it must be obvious MMOs are failing as a whole because imagination is dying. Cant be covered up with graphics or button mashing, people are just simply losing imagination and replacing it with ... leave that last for yall.

Nothing to show? Kolani, you just lost all credibility. Vanguard game design had a lot going for it and only failed because their code was so buggy they lost all their customers.

Do you have eyes in the back of your head? I don't think so. Your RL and in game peripheral vision is controlled by the viewing frustum. It should not be dictated by unrealistic camera placement.

Basically fighting is rather automatic trained response with the fighter seizing opportunities within the flow.

IMO MMO's are failing because the dreamers of 50 years ago wanting desperately to do a space combat game with real 3D that could not be done for 30 years were replaced by a generation of Nintendo players. IMO SOE and now DBG chased this new generation little realizing smart phone tiny apps, Play Station, and XBox satisfied their conditioned preferences better than a persistent game on a desktop computer ever could.

You want that audience you have to convince them that their console games are pablum rather than something worth copying. SOE/DBG hasn't done that. TBH, I don't think DBG CAN do that. I saw MxO, etc. - I've seen what was dead awful and they swore was neat.

Err it failed because of the very broken people running it. Lets just say some reputations will never be repaired.
Buggy code is just the symptom not the disease, a point that seems lost for the most part.

No eyes in the back of my head but neither do I wear box blinders. There is nothing immersive in a vision limit that cannot be remedied. SInce that seems to be part of what you are on about.
Actually I dont remember any more unrequited interest in 3D space stuff than any other genre. Flight simulations did a fair job of but the ping and data load are still to this day far too much of an issue so those fairly remain single player.
What can be debated is a complete lack of imagination in a lot of gamers. Maybe thats the bug in the ointment.

Pantheon's developers are interacting with their potential gamers a lot better than anything going on here.

Heh I dont know a thing about it and would say you are entirely correct as it would be difficult to do worse and be in biz.

The design did have a lot going for it. They also never had a stable build of the game until they went crawling back to Smed after Microsoft decided they had wasted enough money on Brad's coke habit. The design and concept art sure was nice though, since that's all they had for YEARS.

Sorry, dude, but Vanguard was mismanaged when it was at Microsoft because of Brad's rep and MS thinking they had bought the next Everquest for 360.

1. You do wear box blinders. Look up peripheral vision.
2. Your in game field of view is regulated by the viewing frustum which is adjustable and can accommodate something more realistic than viewing through a narrow slit.

Star Trek and MTrek (a very early multi-player game) were quite popular and a lot of players wanted a graphical rendition.

More to the point Castle Wolfenstein/DooM, Indy 500, and a few other 3Dish games put you in the driver's seat rather than being top down or 2.5D/pseudo 3D. It was a BIG deal to produce a 3D 1st person PoV game.

It affects designers and players.

On the plus side someone may develop a game where NPC's hear players speaking into microphones, have believable audible conversations with them, and the virtual world is so convincing that people tremble with excitement when they leave work and head home to play. Re-invent successfully and PS/XBox can (and should) look like ATARI 2600 consoles.

Or one could do a console game and put it on a desktop computer if you think that's exciting.

I'm looking forward to Crowfall more than Pantheon. I have a hard time trusting McQuaid and his projects.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/.../Crowfall-The-First-PreAlpha-Wrap-Report.html

www.crowfall.com

While I am excited about crowfall and even more excited about Camelot unchained, you're comparing a pvp game to a pve game. There aren't many good EQesque pve mmos on the horizon. Saga of Lucimia seems like a bit of a rip off of the pantheon ideas. TW Anderson was originally offiliated with pantheon somehow but left early during the first blow up. I want to like a shroud of the avatar but am having a hard time with the combat system. Pretty much leave pantheon with all its warts at the top of a short list.

I'm looking forward to fallout 4.

The box blinders refers to IRL not games that invariably saddled players in FP mode. As for the frustum exactly how is that player (client) adjustable? Never seen it and honestly would love to know cause well vision is good.

Read and apply the following "more so than other genre" everyone wants better vision and interaction otherwise we would still be playing ASCII MUDs. Lets face it if you hold up say the early Wing Commander series (with physics enabled) as a goal for OLMP space combat thats going to take a hell of a slice out of resources and even then that ping is going to foul it up. Would it be great, sure but it aint happening.

As for a game spanking the Turing test, heck gotta crawl before one can fly.

We all have a hard time trusting Brad by now i guess, but unless Pantheon costs too much (unlikely, prolly a sub) there will be no harm trying. It should be interesting to see what they came up with in the end. I want all such projects to succeed, anything that doesn't try to be another WoW clone or "enter random asian pvp / psuedo-pve mix here".

I was down for Vanguard, but that game was stillborn. No population from the first week. I liked the game, but it was just devoid of others. I'll stay here in Norrath or just not play a video game at all. Honestly, once you stop @ a month later I don't even think about it anymore.