TDS Raid Event 3: Principal Vicarum Nomia - Progression!

Not surprising in the least. Given the highly competitive nature of many of the members from said guilds do you really think some would "risk" falling a spot or two on the rankings even if they mean "nothing"? Those rankings are the driving force behind those guilds recruitment and why many of their members are there in the first place. As said previously all it would take is anonymous emails and the EGL folks wouldn't disclose who the informant was. No guild leadership, not even Qulas, can have the complete control necessary to prevent ever member on their rosters from talking to others about anything. That's true for who is getting cheap wins to the exact strats different guilds are using to win events. If you think otherwise, you're only fooling yourself.

By George i think you got it! i started thinking this a few nights ago and was wondering why all the sudden is EGL doing this stuff. IL members were told not to submit any logs, if they have i am sure they will no longer be a member.......Maybe MS can pick them up.

I doubt they did.

Removing our kill from the list would also remove the last shred of credibility that the list has left.

I promise you NONE of these guilds (RoI, IL, Triton) beat these events with DA procs.

Why is Machin Shin the only bold guild name on the list of 85 guilds?

QUDOS TO THAT but give ole shang a talking to

Minimum 16 days before any other guild on Arx5. 11 days each for Vitio and Lucia. 12 days for Ghost and probably 41 days before any other "legit" win. Beat pre-nerf PoWar 42 days before anyone else beat post-nerf PoWar. 8 days for ToRot. 39 days for Sep5. First guild to complete the last 6 expansions and the first guild to complete almost all the individual raids starting with T4 Thule. Completed every raid achievement in both RoF and CotF.

The gaping resume holes:

When a bunch of raids are released at once with no set order they aren't always first, in the case of RoF launch so many raids came out that 3 guilds beat 3 dragons 2 days before RoI got around to them. Grey Horizon based on every other win date in ToV did not beat Vyemm before RoI, that's just a data entry error. Triality beat Beasts Domain and Elements of a Dream a full day before RoI.

The resume starts to get really spotty with things like Crimson Tempest beating RoI by 5 days on Guardian of the House and 4 days on Force of Eternity. Regardless of beating Crimson Tempest by 6 days to complete UF, in Nov 2010 there had to be some serious questions about RoI's ability to stay on top when they lost 2 events by nearly a week each.

And of course the massive gaping hole that was only prevented by Deep Throat that no one would have wanted to join RoI ever again if they were listed as being the 10th/15th/20th guild to complete Arx3 and were listed as beating Arx3 after they beat Arx5.

One day Qulas will find out who Deep Throat was and thank them for preventing what would have been RoI's inevitable downfall that would have resulted from Qulas refusing to send logs to Mykaylla.

Because they are bold enough to think they are still a relevant guild.

Just like almost all guild leaders sent him votes to not list PoW on the site too, right?

I'm shocked that this thread hasn't been locked.

no more locked doors !

You guys are funny. ROI could write up their exact strat for every event and publish it on these forums, but that doesnt mean every guild that reads them are suddenly going to be contenders for server wide number 2 wins.

Having a winning strat is only part of the battle. Without your raid members having the skill or competence to pull off that strat, you will fail.
How much strategy is actually typed out in channels on raids? High end raid teams are nearly all using some kind of teamspeak with headsets, Mykaylla is not also asking for voice recordings.

The event was bugged. People were getting credit for wins that they did not earn legitimately.
Mykaylla asked for logs as their is no other way to prove that some guilds truly beat an event in an effort to keep the list accurate. Noone denies that logs can be tampered with, but since noone else has come forward with a way to keep the lists as accurate as possible, all this complaining is just so much hot air.

It would be nice if raids did not bug and problems like this never occured, but inventing conspiracy theories that Mykaylla is trying to steal raid strats from alot of the upper end guilds is laughable.

RoVs guild leader sent them, enabling Maykaylla's secret plot to collect logs, steal strats, and challenge the klingons for interstellar domination.

Seems so silly to rely on logs when a simple script written in perl can change all the time stamps to match what would be expected.

taking a screenshot...

while i agree with half of this not all of us req vent

So, you admit a guild that was having some progression issues could benefit from having extensive information about how guilds not having these issues were approaching CC, burn DPS, etc. since the level cap was raised. Indeed such data would be a gold mine no other guild in the game had access to.

Yes sir, I agree logs would help with part of the battle. Which is one of the reason guilds have a long standing tradition of keeping logs private. When I visited your website I missed the download our raid logs menu button.

Its my understanding that prior to request and the delivery of logs Descendent and MS had wins which were either credited and credit removed or never reported as wins and credited. It didn't take logs sir.
1. Guilds widely report highly beneficial raid bugs since ultimately SOE will find out about them. Besides guilds want things to be fixed.
2. 60 player aren't good at keeping secrets.

You admit logs can be tampered with [BA: or manufactured from subsequent legitimate wins] and then use the word "proof" in the same sentence???? Lol. And kindly explain to me how removing guilds from that record if they did not provide logs result would result an accurate list. OP reveals in their own post that the goal was not accuracy. Purge - not because we found out you lied but because you didn't give in to our arm twisting so we could conduct a fishing expedition.

1. Trying to improve the ranking of a guild that is in freefall by purging legitimate wins.

2. Getting a guild provided record that could show kiting, pet tanking, DA abuse or any other tactic which SOE sometime permits, sometimes prohibits by event changes, and sometimes handles as an exploit to have a claimed to be legitimate win contested. The ranking of a guild that is in freefall improves.

3. Setting a precedent by which MS/EGL's judgement supersedes SOE's judgement in such matters. Setting the fox up to guard the henhouse perhaps permanently on every event. The "goal" is accuracy right. The bogus claim is logs = accuracy. Therefore MS/EGL approved accuracy on every event would be $$$, right?

4. Stiring up drama in other guilds. Hey, one (or more) of your guys violated your rules and sent in logs. You don't even have to say that. The solicitation from anon random members is enough to plant a seed.

5. Using logs as a scouting report when looking for applicants.

6. Selectively using logs as fuel for class warfare effecting guilds reliant on Necro DPS vs Wizard DPS for example.

I didn't laugh at an unnamed guild back when I was in DH and unnamed was the perennial server #2. I tried to be respectful despite rivalry. But this ploy and the disrespect shown by demanding the logs of their competitors. Well, I ain't laughing but I dang tooting ain't respecting either.

12/12 of the keys, much less beating the expansion, is plenty of evidence a guild did not rely on bugged wins to advance if the unlikelyhood of 60 players keeping mum and SOE probably keeping an eye out for known exploitation as soon as they were alerted to it isn't enough.

Youre right bud, its all a coverup. EGL is going to purge everyones wins so they can crown MS as the winner for every event in the expansion.

MS had been a top 2 or 3 guild for years and years, but youre implying that suddenly they find that these events are too hard and must start stealing strats from other raid teams so they can beat them.
Its all so clear now, this makes so much sense.

Are Tritons wins not accurately listed on EGL? What are you guys so paranoid about?

Are you disputing that:
1. Logs aren't incontrovertible proof.

2. While OP's motives might seem as pure as the driven snow to OP abuses such as the one's I listed could (and there's a reason to think the value is enough that they would) occur. Does your guild have a download our logs menu button???? Maybe you guys are taking advantage of a known to be bugged ADPS spell or discipline. Full parses while you are at it please. We wouldn't want an inaccurate ranking list, right?

What guarantee do we have that those logs weren't shared with others?
What guarantee do we have that having served their alleged purpose they are destroyed?

I don't speak for Triton. I'm a member and not an officer. IF I were the GL I'd be paranoid about:
1. The potential for the abuses I listed.
2. Absolute opposition for a fellow competitor or people associated with a competitor setting themselves up as judges of legitimacy superceding SOE's role.

There's no compelling (good) reason why a 10 second glimpse of the end of this fight would be inadequate and a full raid log be requested. Both could be faked and both would rely on a conspiracy of silence from 60 guild members that already serves as protection vs false claims without logs. Besides, 12/12 of the keys, much less beating the expansion, is plenty of evidence a guild did not rely on bugged wins to advance.

Do you really think Family Fun is going to show up in the final event dressed head to toe in TDS Raid Event 3 gear without SOE finding out how they got there?

All those things are true, and possible.
Mykaylla and her cronies could be collecting our log data and selling it on the black market to the highest bidder.
An elite band of 14 year old Girl Scouts that have been trained as assassins could show up at my door and kidnap me, and hold me ransom, demanding 10000 Twinkies or they will kill me. That too is Possible.
Perhaps Mykaylla's band of evildoers is using the fortune they are amassing by selling our strats on the black market to fund those Elite Girl Scout Assassins, or EGSA for short.
Perhaps this is all a plot so that Mykaylla can enlist the EGSA to kidnap me because SHE is the one that wants the 10000 Twinkies. We are all doomed!
Hmmm excuse me, there is a knock at the door, and at this hour! I'll be right back...

I could live forever on nothing but thin mints.