Pet Mitigation: Parses and Discussion

Let's say you rolled a DPS caster but could co-opt the TANK role...

You could give all actual tanks a 100AC shield aug....but casters would still be able to co-opt the tank role.

pet to win

Is a warrior a dps class? - No
Is a warrior a solo class? - No
Is a warriors main role to tank in every situation in the game? Yes

If this thread is not a call for nerfs, then call for changes to make you a better tank versus complaining that mages can out dps and solo tanks.

"Warriors are the masters of armed combat and defense, taking the point in battles and going head-to-head with the most dangerous creatures of Norrath. Warriors are a melee class with the ability to wear plate armor and wield all types of weapons.

Warriors build their strength and stamina to unheard-of levels, making them far hardier than any other class. When combined with their heavy armor and excellent defensive skills, warriors are unmatched in their ability to survive the most brutal battles. Warriors train themselves in the skills of combat, mastering the use of all weapons and tactics. Warriors also learn to taunt their opponents, making themselves the focus of all their enemies' attacks, allowing the less-resilient members of their group to remain safe from harm."

That's not a feather duster Warriors hold in their main hand. ",,,all types of weapons". You do know the difference between a weapon (a tool that can be used to produce injury or even death) and a pillow, right????

"Masters of armed combat...." Yes, Wariors are a pure melee offensive and defensive class - we are not meatshields. We are tanks - armor + howitzers. We're fighters - fighters fight they don't just stick out their jaw and say hit me.

Are casters tanks? Thanks for playing.

How do you fix a problem? Ummm lessee...you fix.. the problem. Not something else. You don't toss a symbolic bone in the general direction of the problem. I would hope that you'd be an engineer and fix the problem.

I think we know what the problem is. Heck you even know...

and co-opt the TANK role sometimes performing better in that role than actual tanks (see Shiftee's post) <- you left out that part.

Could someone define actually what a "solo class" actually is? What shoudl they be able to do?

LOL!

That parse shows that my theories have been correct. I'd have to illustrate it, but it involves 2 ranges and would take some time to draw.

Many thanks to all of you parsers posting results.

Everything, clearly.

I logged into Test and watched his necromancer solo that named with nothing but the swarm pets. It was pretty comical... was like swatting at flies in all directions that would never go away. I never would have expected that to be possible or that the dps would be so high.

1.Improve tank mitigation.

2. Restore the ability of tanks to block, Dodge, ripo, etc. incoming melee damage in group and raid content.

3. Insure that all three tank classes have meaningful combat self-healing.

4. Provide all three tanks with a Rallying Cry ability that summons henchmen who swarm their target. do modest DPS, and provide a respite for the TANK during which they can be healed, topped off or cured.

5. Eliminate the Res debuff.

6. Ressed tanks to get 50% of their Endurance and Mana.

7. Tanks to get a core set of tanking buffs upon resurrection.

8. Provide all 3 tanks with meaningful detrimental spell resistance.

9. Narrow the Top DPSer, middle DPSer, and least DPSer gap substantially.

10. Create more content like PoWar to discourage Not Tanks from taking up residence in our house.

More anecdotal evidence, since that's what appears to be the popular counter to parsing in this thread:

I was hanging out with a couple friends who have played various fantasy games over the years (WoW, League of Legends, Skyrim, AoC, etc...) but not EverQuest. Here's how the conversation went.

Me: So the magician is a DPS class that can summon a pet to tank as a soloing mechanic. Warrior is a tank that does much less DPS than the magician. Who should tank better, Warrior or Mage pet?
Friend1: Warrior. Is this a trick question?
Friend2: OBVIOUSLY Warrior
Friend3: You're still playing EverQuest? What class are you playing in that game?
Me: Warrior
Friend3: If the magician pet out-tanks you, you should quit and play LoL with us because that company has no idea how to make a game
Waitress: Oh you guys are gamers? I just hit level 200 in candy crush!

This post made my day.

I'm gonna go play my SK now... I have some ideas!

Guys i suggest you start ignoring the trolls or the thread will be locked as they want it to be. Your arguments wont reach them and their arguments wont make more sense the longer you talk to them.

Have you seen my Bear Tibbers?

I remember when people just played Everquest. When you picked a class cause you thought it was cool. Maybe you played a paladin in AD&D, maybe a ranger, and you wanted to continue. Or maybe you like keeping others alive with heals, so you chose a healer. But you picked a class and liked what your class could do. I never heard much jealousy/class envy comments back in the day.

Nowadays in today's Everquest, everyone wants what others have. In the past two pages we have read a rogue bemoaning his inability to solo a mob that a magician can solo. Furthermore the rogue has questioned what exactly solo should entail and mean. A warrior also echoed similar concerns about an inability to solo as well as a magician.

Everyone is upset at what others can do. Jealousy and envy is rampant. If I was considering playing Everquest and someone sent me to these forums, and especially this thread...why would I even consider playing? Any class you pick is going to be chastised by someone else that cannot do what you can do. It really is sickening to see.

There has been many ideas given on how to change the game. Honestly with the current community and player base in this game, the game should just be rehauled into one class instead of 16. Have that singular class be able to pull, tank, heal, slow, mez, everything. That way no one can be jealous of what another class can and cannot do- we all can do it all. Then you invite five others into your group, and you can decide who will tank today...who will heal...who will mez...who will DPS. At least it would end these countless class envy threads once and for all.

Pull and engage a target until it is dead as a lone player character with no outside intervention or assistance...including mercs and boxes out of group. It doesn't entail "everything" or doing anything particularly well compared to player characters purposely built to do specific roles but they do a few things well enough to not need outside help for some content.

It might be possible that people are confusing molo with solo. People must just assume that a mage comes with a healer merc as a package deal so they can sic pet and just pew pew all the fight while ignoring the healing end of things. If a mage is purely solo...they are working hard to keep that pet up while sneaking in nukes,servants and utility. In that context, there is current content in abundance that will splat a solo mage no problem.

This is the issues people are concerned with. In many situations Pets are just better, and in 98% of situations pets are JUST AS GOOD. i can only named a few named encounters in each expansion where pets can't do the job well. What is even the point of playing a war when a pet can can replace you, even do BETTER than you in situations where the group is less then perfect.

A healer of some description is a package deal when grouping, whether you have a War or a pet tank so the point is mot and unrelated to this discussion. In many ways Pets classes have advantages over Wars when mercs are used as the pet class can spot heal, when mercs are acting dumb.
And as stated already Pet classes can SOLO named, not all named but a decent amount of them. As far as i know Named have never been designed for anything but as group targeted content (which becomes solo/molo able once you out level it)

Only necros are able to solo rares.

Bst can solo Roon ( i saw him do it on test when i was running through EWK) and very likely many more. Mages might be more disadvantaged without a healer but properly rotating the 2nd pet as tank should make it very much possible as well. (obviously its slow, but you can do it)
I think we are getting more off topic with the solo capacity. (tho soloing named is a very odd topic indeed) The point is Pets are much more versatile and viable tanks than most here who are asking for this thread to lock are willing to admit and there IS a certain degree of infringement on the viability of real tanks as a result. I dont think there should really be any situation where a well geared tank should be sidelined for a pet, but in the game there simply are situations where this can occur often. In some ways its much more complex than a numbers game but that is part of it. (In many ways the opening up of diversity in class utility has dramatically increased pet tank viability. Many of the disadvantages to pet tanking have become more a mitigated nuisance then a actual hindrance to pet tanking ect)

No, mages won't be able to do it, because the recast on the swarm pet is too long and it doesn't tank enough before it goes down.