We need alternative options to stats clamping...

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by STsource, Jan 22, 2022.

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  1. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    Here we go with the personal attacks. Look, just because you can't comprehend the point I'm making doesn't mean it doesn't have merit.

    Why don't you work on a real response instead of a childish reddit-like comment before you post in my direction, kid.

    It's not an excuse but a fact. One that many people here have mentioned time and time again. If you want to just chalk it up to an "excuse" then don't bother posting in these threads because you have nothing of substance to bring aside from your snarky comments and your fake-elitist attitude.


    And? So what? Want a digital cookie or something?

    As far as playing an hour a day, yeah, I very much doubt that. Besides, that was a year and a half ago, where there was no stat clamp in place. Anyone can smash content unclamped and get feats. Even if in an hour a day... lulz

    And now here you are, claiming to be a pro-clamp elitist who earned all his feats and SPs the easy way but doesn't want anyone else to. Hypocrite much? hahahaha

    Pseudo-elitism at it's best. Classy.

    I've been playing MMOs since FFXI. Pretty sure I'm got a better handle on the MMO genre and scene than to you and I know your kind very, very well. I used to be like you (but better) but then later on I realized I didn't want to be a fake-elitist over digital nothing that's of no worth or value when it really comes down to it.

    I played DCUO from beta, through launch and stopped in 2013 for a variety of different reasons. Having came back at the end of September for old times' sake, it's been fun but a lot of unnecessary grind is still there. If you don't agree and embrace this pointless grind then don't bother responding to me going forward; it's pointless to.

    You and others like you may want to worship at the altar of the unholy and bloated timesink, but I do not. Yes, progress in MMOs takes time and grind -everyone who plays one knows this. Pointlessly waiting for players to join for old content via omnibus is agonizing and only to have people struggle, leave, be replaced, struggle, leave, etc. isn't a good investment of anyone's time, well, except maybe yours. It is to you because you apparently embrace time waste and bad return on time investment but this is the problem players like me have with DCUO. The stat clamp doesn't help because it takes longer to get to content and in some aspects people give up too easily on the content too. But why is this so hard for you and your ilk to grasp? It's really not that incomprehensible.

    All we want is effective use of our time, not waiting around wasting it waiting and hoping a couple of competent players will end up in old and out-dated content (which rarely happens, if ever) that we're trying to run. And for people wanting a to play this game their way, it should not require a league either so people can stop using that as an excuse to "git gud".

    And try responding like an adult and not like a junior high kid; half of what you write I can't even really decipher and it'd go a long way in taking anything you reply with seriously.
    • Like x 3
  2. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    You got to 600 without doing any of the pvp feats even LPVE? That’s good to know. I hate doing pvp and legends pve. Not going to bother with it nor am I going to bother with seasonal feats. Lmao I wonder how many skill points I could have gotten if I did care to do those. As a battle-tank I should strive to be a sweaty player and get all the skill points so I can be an even better battle-tank but it’s not needed.
  3. BabyBoyzim Dedicated Player

    Not sure how ‘git gud’ matters when so much of the game is a ghost land nowadays. Unless ‘git gud’ means making people come back to que things. I am very good, just not good enough to clone 7 others of me to get things done.

    How about the devs, who care not for pvp admittingly, just give us the feats for those and call it a day. If they can’t be bothered to fix it, and say it doesn’t matter, then give those sp with the next cr advance as well. Also, give an option for dead content similar to the ‘kill giganta or 50 of these adds’ to complete a weekly quest. Sure goes a long way when the dlc is more than a month old and people stop spamming bosses. Go back and fix Doomsday like that. People aren’t spamming him anymore. I can’t just ‘git gud’ and create a crowd of people to do it, and it is pretty impossible to solo certain content now. I feel bad for people that never got the paradox wave feat when you could walk in and drop a nuke solo. The population is not what it used to be. They need to adjust the game accordingly. The disparity between skill/population in regards to xbox/ps/switch/pc is glaring for anyone that has played on all like I have. Currently on Xbox and as an experienced player with a new account that knows how to get sp/feats in virtually all content can see how daunting the task would seem to ‘catch up’ as a new player. They need to address it. Even if they do a special weekend once in a while to take the clamp off.

    I don’t see new people sticking around like this. I’d rather have a thriving un clamped game like before with more people running around playing than a ‘j circle’ handful of ‘elite players’ telling people to ‘git gud’ screaming in lfg while nothing ques due to lack of players.
    • Like x 4
  4. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    She has all the 'map' feats in LPVE and some of the 'family' feats. I did those begrudgingly, but they were easy enough with the 10x weeks and people running team ups (well...dox still sucked). A few PVP feats are done, but there are at least 20+ SP I could knock out in there still....bleh.

    Seasonal feats are easy if you know how to generate the marks and use wisely. Easy sp for the most part. I'd re-do all seasonals over vs the 100 counts in WV bounties if given the choice, and the total time would be less than 50 hours.
    • Like x 1
  5. Max Maximus Well-Known Player

    What I would find interesting is to have the old content at max level. That is, put the old contents in the current CR. Like they did in Save the Universe. You would have the option to choose between the original, regular or elite.
  6. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    Omg you did not… you’re going to get claws all over you for suggesting the devs give yall all the pvp feats. That comment of yours lol is beyond Dr.Evil
    Yeah I’m not bothered to take advantage of those 10x weeks whenever we got them. lol Back in the days I was so hyped in doing those pvp feats against players in arenas it was more innocent but also challenging when you have to win several times in a row.
    • Like x 1
  7. BabyBoyzim Dedicated Player

    Ha! I got the feats on my ‘home system’ ps before I decided to get rid of ps and try other systems believe it or not. I can only imagine a new player trying to be ambitious and get them when nobody, not even the devs, give a crap about it. ‘Git gud’ I guess to those poor souls. Or like Reinhelds great post about skill. ‘Collect clothes, this means you’re getting better. Turn that cog 1500 times.’ Lol.
    • Like x 2
  8. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Yeah, wasn't doing them for the counts, just taking advantage of all the people running at the time. It did get me pretty far in the counts (got 250 on some, 750 on a few of the 'big' count ones), but I ran NONE for counts alone...team up or checklists only.
    • Like x 2
  9. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    Yeah as many that say they’re up in arms because of the feats…there’s like less than 200 feats that are actually difficult or a struggle from the 1392 available in episodes and over 3000 total feats in the game. Less and less of the game is made for the uber sweaty very skilled players. Shouldn’t they also have chase items available (as in difficult group feats)? If they’re easy for casuals, how easy are they for sweaties?

    In perspective, it’s a small proportion of feats that are tough. If you’ve accomplished even 90% of feats you’re in the ballpark of a completionist.
    • Like x 1
  10. Proxystar #Perception

    We can beat around the bush all you like, the truth is people want easy unclamped content because they want easy feats, the only additional point you make is that they also want quick, easy feats.

    If you want the rewards put in the time on at least one character, that's really it.

    Obtaining those feats later on is always, always easier than doing when running the content, it is also quicker, the only issue here is that you want it mind numbingly easier and quicker - it's really that simple.

    You can write all the words you want Reinheld but that's what it is, if time is an issue perhaps play less alts?
  11. BabyBoyzim Dedicated Player

    True. Even on my main account I am just over 400 sp and don’t need more to be considered fully specced for any role. Imagine starting the game now and having to get one of the bounty feats from a dlc nobody visits. ‘Git gud’ I suppose. The clamp needs to go. I like it. I truly do. It’s just the skill point thing that stinks for new ppl. Either adjust those grindy feats or do a week every couple months or so of no clamp so people can catch up to those of us that have played the game since launch and did it all before. What is the harm in that?

    I also happen to like the game and want more people to play. I want to not discourage new people from progressing. Idgaf that I struggled years ago and had to put in the time. We’re over a decade into this game. It is selfish and unfair of me to expect people to put in the same amount of time I did to get my sp. especially when I played when the game was scorching hot with players day and night. If I were new now and saw what needed to be done with the dwindling population and the people that do play being elitist snobs, I’d quit. I wonder how many have to be honest. I just want bodies in game, I want a full watchtower/hod all hours of the day.
    • Like x 2
  12. Dry Cleaning Well-Known Player

    it's default mode for some ppl lol. they can't even see they're doing it
    • Like x 1
  13. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Sure and agreed, no way am doin the PvP’s again lol
    Are you arguing that its somehow tough for new or returning players tho?
    I mean, clamped content is a joke……. I dont feel clamped, i still out damage everyone multiple times over and bosses still melt fast enough u can almost blink an they are dead at times…… time is NOT the factor these ppl r cryin it is (even if it were, so be it, alot of us have years an years an they shouldnt be able to snap their fragile fi gers an be caught up anyway) but come on man, these ppl have it as easy or easier then most of us ever had it.
    If they cant even handle this, how can they or anyone expect them to handle a feat at relevancy and even if we tive em all feats, do you want these scrubs in your league or raid?
    Pfft i dont smh. If running EO feat clamped is too hard and its too much effort to find a leage or build a group then i dont want em near my character
    • Like x 1
  14. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    I'm looking at it this way: the clamp is currently forcing people to do something they never would have done in a million years - and that's 'tell people how things actually work'. That's something that isn't going to continue happening if the clamp goes away or gets undermined by a "super endgame player friendly" option.

    If you're in here with 500, 600 SP and complaining about Feats? The Feats you're after probably aren't the ones that Solo carrying a buncha 150s will net you anyway - eventually you, or should I say we as a community, will need more people who know what's going on in order to make things like that happen.

    That's not going to happen in an environment where there's always a safety net in the form of some 356 ringer with 160 + Arts and 400 SP in the group running 85 CR content - until you end up in a spot where the mechanics come into play and then the ringer doesn't know those either.

    That was a problem before the clamp, and it's a problem now; the difference being that as a problem now, it's a problem we're all in the same relative boat facing. You use teamwork to get there, people are willing to listen when the team runs into an issue. On the other hand, people go from zooming through three Bosses for six Raids in a row and end up stuck on something and the tendency is to call it an unfair mechanic, pick apart their own team, and leave the Raid.

    Any of that sound familiar to anyone else?

    And to be frank, who knows if a teamwork required approach will have a positive long-term effect on the community - it may not. I do know that this is still in a place where it's barely been "months" and is still comfortably expressible as a couple dozen weeks since we've been trying this, so it's probably a little early in the experiment to be calling it quits now, especially after ten straight years of the other method.

    Between that and old Open World Bounties being fun again (we all have something we like) - I'm in favor of giving it a shot.
    • Like x 3
  15. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Listen, its not a fact, i just proved its not by the criteria/challenge YOU laid out. Sorry but facts are facts and your wrong.
    If you cant be bothered to put in minimal effort, thats a YOU prob not a game prob.
    If your too scrubby to be able to do it, thats also a YOU prob.
    Too lazy to find a good league or not good enough to get in one? Guess what, also a YOU prob.
    And finally, too lazy or high an mighty to build a group like the game (a MMO) intended, that sir, is also a YOU prob.

    You laid out the challenge/criteria (prob as snippy and condescending as it read) and i told ya just how it happened, and still happens. Gave real world examples of how OP we are even clamped. Now is the ime for any new or returning player. You can catch up to a functional level in a month and be respectable in just 2. Just because YOU cant, doesnt mean everyone else cant.
    Add me in game, i will go as far as to help you get SP so u can quit cryin on here when its stupidly easy as is and in the process maybe you will learn how to play the game an be able to get in a decent league (i will help you with that too, i know plenty)
    You dont need to be unclamped to get SP and catch up. Maybe YOU need to but in general, you dont……again, thats a YOU prob
    • Like x 2
  16. Catastroflare Well-Known Player

    u mad bro?
    • Like x 1
  17. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    So does every clamp hater hate it due to sp gate keeping or cuz of failed runs? Reading thru this post is confusing me. The tl:dr seems to be keep clamped as is and then give an option to play the old way aka unclamped no real rewards but feats are do-able? And then pro clampers don’t want that cuz no one would run clamped? 10 pages and they all read like the last 48 posts on the subject.

    And now sp has taken over the conversation so that’s where I wanted to toss out an idea. Obviously us old timers had it easier just because anything is easier to get while it’s current content. Not easy easy for all but at least there’s more players interested while content is relevant. Getting old counters is terrible but yeah, can always be done with enough determination. But anyway, onto my idea for a change.

    We keep all the sp we have. We can continue to get sp all the ways we always have. But add in an xp count for bosses defeated in content. Add a tiny bit for collections found. And then maybe for some other things but absolutely not for everything. It would have to be a sliding scale meaning each level now takes more xp to fill. But it can’t just be for killing adds or bounties because that would add up too fast and if you think the sp disparity is bad now, wait till the 600+ club starts also getting more. There is always a downside. But it could work to get players up to 300 quickly and then they can go get a few the regular way and be at that 400+ point fairly quickly and the ones sitting there not needing any will still be getting some.

    Anything over 450 is pretty pointless. I’m only at 550 and I’ve probably got 8 to 10 unassigned cuz they don’t matter anymore. I was sad to see that the pvp ones weren’t included in the skip. Big supporter of that since you couldn’t get me to play pvp without paying me real money and I’d just place my toon there and walk away.
  18. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Finally there is a point u made thats coherant and not just crying about time thats not the factor your making it out to be.
    Agree 100%
    Your correct that sitting in omnibus Q’s is a massive massive waste of time. Its not going to get you the runs you need nor the feats your after.
    Its not designed to do that and never was. The devs sold it as exactly that but they were wrong then and im sorry you think (or thought) that was a good idea.
    Look, im trying to help you, im just sick of the excuses and whining (not you specifically but in general).
    The system is what it is (and its miles more favorable to catching up than back in the day originally). The mechanism is there. You need cooleration and either a good friends list or league or both. You said yourself you understand how MMO’s work yet also say a leavue shouldnt be required. U cant have it both ways and that to me is why u want rid of the clamp. You want to play 8 person content but be able to do it yourself an get feats w/out your team and thats not the design of the game. You cant do it solo, sorry.
    Again, your 100% correct that omnibus is wasting your time. DO NOT use omnibus to get feats or get runs you need to pop, it WONT work.
    You can call me an elitist but im not, far from it. I dont consider myself close to an elite player. Its shameful how far the content has fallen. Raids used to be legit (Prime, FOS2, Paradox, Nexus, etc) now u can Q for anything pretty much an take who u get and beat it easy. Its pitiful. Thats also part of the basis of my synopsis that the game is far far too easy as is and it does no one any good to make it easier.
    Add me ingame, most of my time is dedicated to helping others.
    • Like x 1
  19. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Not sure how many times I need to say it, but I'm not in this for me, I've put in my time...so don't worry about that. I've got well over 500, and no one NEEDS more SP than that, however, many I got either A) doing the content when it was current (0 additional effort on top of what I was doing) or B) did them when I could 'grind' them out in quick sittings while the clamp was off. I'd guess you did too...I'd guess many of the people for the clamp did too.

    Neither of these are still possible because that clamped content IS NOT still current (or it would not be in the clamp, no?), and as easy as much of the clamp is, you cannot possibly think that raids and most alerts can be done as fast as previous...meaning grind/count/rng/checklist feats by default will take LONGER than when you and I did them. Not are not TOUGHER....just slower.

    Once again....I'll say for the people in the back or those who can't comprehend the difference. I'm not referring to the COUE speed feat or FGSE no death, 4 corners, any of the FVR/E boss timing feats, Omega/Omega, Masters of Madness....whatever 'skill' feat you want to bring up, I'm talking about killing 222 Ultraviolet constructs, 1000+ bounties through 20+ DLCs, any number of RNG checklists....there are as many or more of THOSE feats than there are the ones that actually take some level of skill.

    How much time did you put in 'working' on 'Every bot counts' in Return to Nexus? Did it take a lot of 'skill' to spam WV bounties with dozens of other people? How 'gud' did you get to before running 250 bottle duos when we all ran 3 a day for 3-4 months? I know I put 0 thought or effort into those as I was running them every day for a few months so they just went off one day. They took 0 ADDITIONAL time over what I was running for gear and marks because they were what I was running for gear and marks. You know....'current' content? NO ONE wants to run Return to Nexus 40x while there are 1000's of other things to work on....especially now that the run will take 2-3x longer and god knows how long to even build a group to work on it. The fact that you think any of those feats have anything to do with skill or being 'gud' says a lot about your outlook on new players. I am glad though that LOOT has such a welcoming outlook on running old feats for new players. I've heard you repeatedly say players should 'join a league' to work on those old feats....so I'd guess that applies to your own league....even if you are not as welcoming personally.

    And if you are simply saying that a person starting today, or next month or next year should be required to put the total cumulative time in that you put in over 10 or 11 years or I put in over 8 or so, to get the same stuff done....yeah, that seems reasonable, how's the view from the other side of that gate you keep?
    • Like x 5
  20. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    If someone’s starting the game now, no one should be telling them to focus on old bounty feats…if you want bounty feats - find a league that runs a rotation and realize it’ll be a long haul, but you’ll be making steady progress on most of the bounty feats.

    Imagine running 250 bottle ship duos “when content had loot locks.” Some of us did that. Now you’ll get loot and be working on styles. For as many feats that may be more challenging, the sheer numbers says there’s at least 2x more that are much easier.

    If you want to focus on the 25% of a glass that’s empty, that’s on you. No one needs to call others elitist because their heels are dug in on stubbornness.
    • Like x 2
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