The current Tank crisis

Tank issues is compounded from 4 problems.

1. Content - there just isn't a lot of instances that are designed to require a tank. Mostly because of designing for completion of random queues (mostly alerts), but a lot of it is because they design it for a single tank. (Raid) It didn't help that single target taunts wasn't made until WAY after the game was developed. Mid to late 2013. That's a long time to ingrain into the players that we should ignore tanks in 4 man or lower and need only one tank for 8mans.
2. Aggro - As I mentioned earlier, single target taunts came in halfway through the game's life. Also, aggro still works the same way. You either have it or you don't.
3. Role-less buffs - This one really needs to go, but they are too afraid to let it go, since less completion of queues, less population. I remember at SOE Live, they were talking about removing it from random queues, but if you queue up with a complete group, you could get it. That I suppose fell wayside with all the exoduses that this game had.
4. Players - We are d--ks to each other. Straight up, we will go out of our way to exclude anyone if we feel it's normal to do so. I do think, at level, having a tank makes all content smoother and goes the same speed if you have 2 dps, but in the players mind, you can do more damage with 2 dps so it will be faster. Dang the actual time.

I should but i always jump in to save them

It damn sure isn't. It's why I have much respect for the ones that do it right, because I know it took a lot to get good with those powers. Electric healing when done right is a MAJOR life saver...and it pairs up great with other healing powers (that safety net).

And when I run outside the league I hear what people say about the tanks who are struggling a little. Everytime I hear the insults flying it reaffirms my decision to not expose myself to that BS.

Can we talk about scoreboard chasing DPSes who get exactly what they deserve when they get one shot for jumping ahead of the Tank?

Can we talk about the trigger happy nature healers and quantum trollers who stun before the Tank has a chance to use the AoE pull?

Can we talk about the munitions DPSes who use big gun on the wrong adds and then get killed by the next group with an AoE one shot?

Most of the time, when the Tank is being blamed, its literally any other role that was the problem.

Tanks set the pace of the raid, nobody else. Any DPS who dies from being one shotted gets exactly what they deserve if they can't follow this very simple rule. I will happily let them die and then pull aggro. Every time.

This last one isn't directed at you, but I don't now what people are talking about with Earth Tanking. It's incredibly easy, and fun, if you're using the Jackhammer load out. The only time I have had problems running as an Earth tank always involve trigger happy DPS and trollers, jumping ahead.

Just try and remember this simple rule:

If you're in front of the tank, you're doing it wrong.

It's not our job to keep up with you, it's your job to wait for us.

Oh, ye of little faith.

When a few of my league buddies and I run together and PUG to find a couple of extras, we won't hold back on anyone... regardless of role... when it comes to any of the following:

1. Lack of skill points (yes, if we start having problems burning things down or we see one of the support roles continually failing their job, we will wavedox them)
2. Lack of mods... both stat and tactical. We do, however, give anyone a pass who has at least gone to the effort of using beta mods to activate the affinity bonuses because we do understand the rapid change of gear and the need for the raw materials to make higher level mods. Also, if we see that you have the wrong mods in there (be it tactical or stat), we will gladly give you the information necessary to correct it.
3. Lack of picking up because they're scoreboard chasing

Mind you, we might be dripping with sarcasm as we do it...

OTOH, if you really do not understand how to do something, we're not going to sit there and insult you. We will make an effort to explain things to you and try to help you get through it.

On a personal note, experienced players have been kind to me in the past and explained/coached me through things... especially when I first tried being a tank (got the gear and setup and did it for BBS... and the people I ran with knew it was my first time and were cool with it and with helping me), and when I finally managed to get to the last boss fight for the first time in DWFR (I really and truly wish I could remember the guy in that instance who was patient with me and helped coach me as I tanked it). Those two experiences have me at least trying to help novices understand how to go about doing some things... and by helping others, I am hopefully paying back the kindness they showed me.

Nature's stuns aren't anything tanks get angry about. Tanks can pulls adds that are in the plants. Now trigger happy quantum trollers? I don't mind if they get trigger happy. I pull the adds still but, honestly, I think dps get angry about it because the tank doesn't group everything up due to the quantum stuns.

Dps who go ahead of me? I let them die. Once they die I pull, if on tank, or start healing, if on healer.

I like helping people BUT I won't help those that don't admit, during the beginning of instance, that they don't know the instance. The reason being: if you can't be honest with your group at the beginning then I assume you know the instance. If after a couple wipes you admit you don't know, then you're screwed. If I'm looking for someone to invite for a raid and you tell me it's your 1st time in there I'll invite you over others due to "breaking your instance cherry" and teaching you the way to do the instance. I'm all for helping if you're upfront with not knowing but if you wanna keep it secret you will be ridiculed by me and others.

Ive tanked with every power in pretty much all content and never had issues as far as acceptance. But i mostly run with league. I like differences between the powers and i dont find it boring. Because i like controlling the battle. Now the alpha male thing? So if dumb dps wanna run ahead of me in raids and attack 1st what ive been doing lately is i just stop. Usually there is a wipe. If people cant wait 1-2 seconds for me to catch up then that is their problem, not mine. But i very rarely fall behind. As a tank u should be leading the pack, always. A personal pet peeve of mine is slow tanks who sit there for no reason waiting on nothing. If u are in the middle or back of the pack as a tank all the time then imo tanking isnt for u.

I agree raids are pretty much the only spot u need a tank(s). What is supper annoying is then having bosses who ignore the tank. I cannot tell ya how many times i frost sniped a boss and they lunged a dps and killed em. And it wasnt a scripted aggro drop attack either. That kinda stuff is a major design flaw.

I think a big reason there arent a lot of tanks is not needing them except for raids like ya said but also there are a ton of them out there who dont know how to play the role. They dont understand how aggro works. They dont understand positioning and how to turn the boss or tank em in a certain spot. And we all know what happens most of the time when ya try and give people some advice. But the #1 problem imo is, all of the good tanks run with their league mostly. So finding a good one is like spotting bigfoot

Having recently started playing a quantum toon specifically to learn about trolling (I'm a fire tank... aka a power guzzler) so that when I do complain about the troll's lack of power output I can speak more from a position of knowledge rather than sounding like a whiny brat. That said, the stun you refer to is the PoT move for quantum and is often one of the first things you cast for the benefit of the group. If you check my other post earlier, I did mention specifically trolls and nature healers and their rooting stuns as a reason a tank can't necessarily pull everything from all over.

Yes and no. Sometimes, the tank is at fault... but not as often as the rest of the group may think.

I'm with you there.

TGIF... Tank Goes In First.

However, please remember to keep your healer and troll apprised of what you are about to do so that they are ready to go as well. You and the rest of your group will live a lot longer.

*whine* But we might be in here for a whole extra minute! *whine*

Look i have seen ice tanks use combos and attack the whole time just using thier shields it is the player that decides how they play fire as well not all can do the the damage of atomic but i have seen good battle tanks for ice fire rage and atomic they just have to wait for it wait for it learn thier power and role

I'll go along with that. It's quite a good policy. I've even offered to change my way of doing something in an instance in spite of my experiences... if it makes things a little easier for everyone else in the group, because hey... I might actually learn a variation that works better. Or maybe someone has a special request to help accomplish a feat (kill the bosses in a certain order, for example)... I'm quite happy to help with getting people feats when asked.

This goes back to my "get in the chat" gripe. Advanced content requires communication. If you're going to go to LFG to fill out your team, have the courtesy to get in the same chat once the instance starts, and this goes for everyone on the team. You can't sit there and try to type out a message into the group chat box while in combat. It just doesn't work very well.

I'm all for helping with feats, if asked during group formation or the beginning of the raid. I can't stand it when people ask for a specific feat during the boss fight or if they try and strong arm the group into a feat, GOM last boss fight breaking 19 group of eggs. If they do that, I wipe the group or ask/pay the healer to stop healing and wipe the group.

Use the PoT from the space tree. As I recall, it only stuns one rather than two, but it doesn't root so the tank can still pull. That's my recollection, that the time pot had more CC but was a bigger PITA, while the space PoT had less CC but wasn't as obtrusive. Used distortion wave for group CC once everything was collected.

It only stuns two when they are close to each other. If they're too far apart, it only stuns the target. I'm still learning... and I'm trying to be sure the tank starts things overall. Do I always succeed? No... but that's a matter of learning better timing on my part.

I generally just ask that you say something before we start the boss fight in question. I've even gone so far as to ask if anyone needs a certain order on 2nd boss or the 19 eggs feat on last boss... usually at the start of GOMR, but sometimes as we are approaching that boss fight or as we form the group. I do agree with your dislike of strong arming the group in the middle of the fight. I also would like to know if you need Dusk til Dusk til Dusk til Dusk long before we get there. When I join a group for either of those, I will also frequently ask if we are doing any of the feats just to make sure I don't ruin it for someone else. It sets an appropriate expectation level for me and everyone else in the group long before we are in combat.

Also, if you're joining the group and the group leader is not interested in doing feats (far more interested in the "quick run") thing, you have two choices: play along and do this fast run, or leave the group and find another that will help you.

Totally agree with you Darth

ice is easier to pick up and use then fire is, and so is atomic.

not to mention both have better pulls which is the deal breaker for alot of ppl. So thats why. But it all falls on skill IMO. I've seen garbage ice and atomic tanks but know a awesome earth tank.

I play as a rage tank and it's not always flawless even tho I'm very good at it. Granted it's not easy to learn and takes good muscle memory to not crash while tanking a boss and trying to pull multiple ads towards you. Am I needed in alerts? When they come out yes, doing certain feats yes, trying to make a run smoother yes. It even helps being one in UT first boss to keep the stupid dps from pulling the boss to all the chains.

In terms of expensiveness, it's like modding a dps role but just different colors. As rage I have almost 300sp so my sp dom is all maxed out, all ten mods as dom so that's maxed out, so there is a limit to what you can do for certain powers.

Tanks are important to have in game as they take the beating for the team. But with this community it's when the healer can handle it is when the tanks go on vacation.

here's what I dont get though, ppl who like to tank why did you players cave to excluding your kind? Why not make your own group and stay tank?

I know if Im a tank or troll I refuse to go DPS regardless if a person says switch. B/c for 1 its MY group lol I'll build as I see fit, and 2 you dont pay anything on MY account

Oh my dear sweet God!

I cannot believe I forget that. That's just one of the most annoying things I've ever experienced as a tank. That is more annoying than a policeman waiting to put mulct out of the stadium because he knows everyone drinks at sporting events. One of the best examples is the annoying, despicable, insufferable Monkey called: Gorilla Grood in PB raid. I try to put the aggro so many times with the inescapable storm and with frost snipe, but the damn monkey just spends it jumping from one side to the other killing all players like the stupid savage it is. That is incredibly annoying.

The first time I faced that Monkey, I got so desperate that I started yelling loudly at my TV:

LOOK AT ME!