Tanking in Elite Content

Those of you who tank elite content I have some comments. I can easily tank elite duos and alerts, it’s the elite raids that show a different story. So let me get this straight, when doing elite raids the tank is supposed to kite around? Is that really the purpose of a tank in elite content? Tanks didn’t get changes to them just so they can kite around they got changed so that they can be more active and not block but in elite content from numerous videos I seen it’s always the same setup and playstyle. There’s no uniqueness to any tank powerset if you’re just going to run multiple shields and kite around hoping the dps can defeat the enemies. Hopefully there’s more to it than that. Insight from these OP elite tanks can shine some light on this. With the recent notes for elite content does it still apply or will it allow for more a fluid playstyle?

You CAN kite around, but make sure you have high dominance, so you can continuously juggle the adds.

"If he can't stand, he can't fight"
- Terry Silver

Sure you can kite but is it the only thing? Even if you try and juggle enemies the damage they throw at you is insane especially in pug runs. My question is is kiting the only solution?

Elite Content tanking that I seen over and over usually has multiple shields, juggle and kites. I’m just wondering if it’s intended to just be a kite tank in elite content.

Pretty much, yes. If your team decided on only running with one tank in that end game elite raid, kiting becomes your primary option.

For example solo tankin TSDE critical last boss is pretty much 50-50. If your solo tank dies in that fight, its a wipe. Solution to that is having 2 tanks. So far earth is the only tank powerset that able to tank Anti-monitor with less kiting than other powersets.

We saw biggest example of kite tanking on survival mode season 2 and devs trying to get rid of that playstyle. Its weird because old 8 man SMs didnt have this issue. There was only 2 bosses and and they just take long to burn. They didnt have some braind dead mechanics that 1 shot you for the most part. Or even basic weapon combos(ie: shark's block break)

Dominance has no impact on how strong a CC is. All dominance does is checks the threshold to make sure you meet the minimum required to actually CC an enemy.

Tanking is not really a one size fits all. Some raids you’ll want to kite while other times you’ll want to bring them to a certain area. For elite endgame raids you’ll want to optimize your loadouts to fit a pure tank style (with some exceptions). Basically, if you can make it easier by being more tanky than do it. If it means kiting than its what you gotta do.

While not what I wanted to hear I can respect it. I don’t use armories but having one specifically for elite raids can help a lot and it’ll be a completely different playstyle than what I like. The thing is which elite raids require you to kite more often than not? Which elite raids from bosses ignore shields? Having multiple shields are just useless if they bypass it.

That is a misconception that a lot of people have. Yes some attacks do bypass shields. However that does not outright make them bad. The shield will still protect you from follow up attacks which tends to be what kills players. For example, look at Murk. He has an attack that will do about 95% percent of your health and bypasses shields. However that 95% will never kill you unless you are not at max health. An attack before or after that attack will will you. Popping a shield will not stop the 95% hit but it will protect you from damage that comes before and after that attack giving the healer time to heal you. So even for attacks that bypass shields, the shield is still helpful if not critical.

Pretty much all elite raids will have a level of kitting. Some will have more while others have less. It is more the type of boss. For example, if you look at the Superman fight. You can do minimal moving but when the adds spawn you will want to at least stay on the outer edges to make sure you have time to move. Its not so much always kite or never kite. Its more about reading the info provided to you by the run. If you are taking to much damage than move around and CC enemies. Or you can find yourself kitting something 1 time but not another. Like if a healer(s) is having trouble healing than you would want to make it easier on them and kite more. But another time you could have a perfect healer and you wont need to move as much. Tanking (especially elite raids) is more about using whats in front of you to determine what you do.

If you are solo tank, pretty much every boss fight with adds, kiting is your friend. For solo bosses, first ones that pops up in my head are

• Zeus on FGSE (back then his staff combos were melting shields idk about now)
• Superman on TSDE(especially severe and critical)
• World forger (critical & maybe severe) Thing is you dont wanna be on his range because his hammer throws are nasty.
• Anti-Monitor(95% of the time kiting is life saver for critical atm)

In short, you shouldnt allow bosses to use their full weapon combos on you. Thats where kiting helps you. You get out of range, they stop comboing. Brawling, two-handed and staff weapons are most dangerous ones.

I mean yeah that makes sense to still have at least two shields in which case I do see myself using three shields like atomic, density, hls and mass density. That’s actually a good point you made. If I find myself taking too much damage, move around and CCe enemies. I can manage, I got plenty of experience stopping my attacks just so I can casually walk around the boss while they’re still setting up their skull attack lol I been meaning to make my atomic a full tank spec for elite and using mass density as often as possible with EOG and Quislet.

Yeah I expect myself to solo tank because I’m always pugging. You keep saying range though am I to believe I have to range the boss or would mid range be more suitable?

Since the revamp kite tanking it is pretty much the only way to efficiently tank solo bosses in the hardest content (and in some cases adds as well), of course you aren't forced to, but the healer and the team will have a much harder job if you arent avoiding the weapon combos.

It is also the thing I hate the most about the revamp and am hoping for a fix since ever. Kite tanking was pretty much a exploit back in the day because it was a way to confuse the boss AI to not attack you properly (I remember a bunch of people using this to bypass mechanics in 8-man SM), but right now single boss fights are pretty much all about this, you roll away from the boss and counter ranged combos.

Some mechanics will bypass shields, but ranged attacks, add attacks and other stuff wont, so having multiple shields (and a movement mode shield supercharge for solo bosses) is probably the best build to tank right now.

For stopping their melee combos, yeah mid range is fine. Getting in their melee triggers their melee attack and immedietly getting away from them stops their melee attack. You can play with their AI/scripted weapon attacks this way.

I’m guessing super speed will be your best movement to kite?

Hmmm I see, I got some testing to do. Thanks everyone.

Elite content is meant to be a group content, due to its difficulty, so yes, you are meant to do pretty much that.

1. Shield to make sure your HP doesn't fall down too much during the kiting.
2. Kite to make sure your DPS can kill the adds in peace.
3. Juggle to buy time for your DPS to eliminate the adds asap.

I never said dominance affects the strenght of the CCs. As you said it yourself, it's meant to enable you to CC, just that, which is why a high dominance = more chances of succesfully doing your juggling.

I respect threads like this. Actually asking, wanting to learn and willing to attempt something outside of their comfort zone in order to get the content done. Something that is often lost in the general sea of "Nerf Naow"-threads.

+1

Acrobatics and super speed will pretty much perform the same way. Super speed has speed drain and acrobatics has perfect poise for supercharges, just don't pick flight (In fact no role should ever pick flight until they fix the long time to get into movement).

I hate kiting and only do it if it's absolutely necessary. Though my tank is atomic and from what I can tell atomic can face tank a lot of scenarios when other powers have to kite. I had to kite Lady Blackhawk in PCe because the hit box on her one shot dive would get me at the beginning of the dive if she was too close so I had to maintain distance. Other bosses I had to kite were FOAe last boss (until Teekyl was out), Fie first boss, CTe first boss (keeping cat woman and Ivy separated), FVe 2nd boss (keeping rogues separated to minimize their defense buff), and ISe StU upscaled first boss (ARC hit like a mack truck). Obviously Survival Mode required a a lot of kiting but SM is it's own beast entirely. Also, anytime Dark Robbins or similar high CC resistance adds are present I either kite or preferably sky tank. They break out of a juggle super easily and if they get a chance to garble your marbles, you're toast. I always sky tanked MOMe last boss for that reason.

As for movement type, your best option for mobility IMO is tumbling which you can do regardless of movement. I've had little problem being flight and tanking out of movement mode or, as I mentioned above, occasionally sky tanking when it's advantageous.

There is no "chance" involved. it either works because you're over the minimum dom threshold or it doesn't because you're not. Full tank gear puts a player well over the minimum Dom threshold and that's before even factoring Dom from augments, artifacts and sp. Now, adds CC resistance and breakout profiles is a different issue which does involve RNG chance. But Dom has nothing to do with that.

All my characters are flight, I just really dislike super speed and acrobatics movement but I acknowledge their usefulness compared to flight.

This is the first time I hear the term “sky tank”. How is that possible if you get grounded? In FOS3 the bosses stay in the air at times which makes me be in the air and tank them up there but that’s a kitty raid. I do like how Mass Densify works.

In terms of tanking I hate kiting, absolutely 100% loathe it with a passion. I do it because I have too - just my personal opinion, some other tanks enjoy it though, so shrug. I just wish there was less of it sometimes.