So Devs Let's talk about Weapon Balance (DW & Bow)

it is truly sad, but Shark Dental you're wasting your time with these two because all they're concerned about is preservation of whatever it is they're doing right now. They're horrified at the prospect they'll have to do something new if things are changed. They want to just do their Bow > Flurry and call it a day and tragically they consider every one else to somehow be inept just for opening a discussion on it and imply even than 1 2 3 4 from AM's was any harder.

Is that supposed to be Knarly stuck in there by accident after his cat turned the dryer on?

That would be funny, though tragic.

There’s a reason why almost all prec users use dw>flurry and bow>smokebomb. It’s op compared to the other weapon combos. Now I will say I don’t trust the devs to fix it without breaking it. So atm I don’t have an easy fix. Also the prec artifacts needs to be toned down or the might artifact needs to be buffed. Munitions if I remember reading correctly is said to be doing extra dmg by stacking its pi dmg and rail gun is doing more dmg then it’s supposed to or so I read.

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth and ignoring my repeated statements.

Ditto

No I pointed out the many times you've called these abilities cheese and overpowered as evidence that you are by defacto calling for a nerf. I made mention of you saying you were a support player as evidence that you probably dont have the hours upon hours of often frustrating experience pounding on a dummy with an under powered class to give you perspective. I pointed out you incorrectly saying quantum isnt that far behind gadgets to show your lack of understanding of the dps class and the gaps in strength there in. I pointed out that lowering the damage to these weapon abilities will not add variety to the game but instead result in 6000 new gadgets, earth and munitions players who were forced to go pftt.

You turn around and say ignore him dental hes just terrfied of change and horrified at the idea of having to try new things. See the difference? One of these things is not like the other. I'm directly responding to things you've said and you are mocking me and putting words in my mouth when I've said many times more variety in weapon combos would be nice. I've tried discussing this civily with you and shark and get my intelligence called into question and my opinions mocked. The one time you acted as though you wanted to "openly and honestly discuss" this with me I gave you a detailed explanation of my worry within this post and the potential "fix" and you never responded.

No and let's be brutally honest here.

I gave you the opportunity to have a meaningful conversation but at every turn despite the opportunities you've refused to do so, even after I thought we might be getting somewhere you're back on ther very next page with a new entirely unprovoked diatribe providing no actual meaningful discussion points.

You and Gulrick are doing nothing but attempting to criticize me on a personal level including making absolutely unfounded assumptions about my skill level or how I even play the game. With Gulrick going as far as saying my thread is motivated by me getting thrashed by someone on the scoreboard, that my friend is what is referred to as a pitiful and not even discrete attempt to derail discussion through personal attack.

When I said I'm a support player that was to stress that I don't really care about damage dealing because its not what i specialise in but assuming that implies I'm incompetent at it or don't know what I'm talking about is again a pitiful assumption to try and shut down discussion.

The more personal you make it the more distraction there is from meaningful discussion.

For what it's worth I've beaten plenty of gadgets users with quantum, earth users too and munitions, if anything your assumption about quantum being weak shows an absolute ignorance of quantum as a power, I'd know I've pretty much mained quantum since it came out in amongst the odd break to play mental.

The reality is the game is broken when it pushes players towards using one single weapon and one single move.

You advocating for that to remain because you think it balances the game, as even shark dental is saying is what's truly tragic and sad and it is.

That is not balance and nor is it healthy to have a system in place that encourages players to use one weapon out of like 10.

No one would be tolerating this if it was a system pushing all players to be one power, so the mere suggestion we do the same with weapons is asinine to say the least.

I don't care whether the devs nerf the weapons, I don't care about their history of nerfs, I don't care if they buff all the weapons, I just want to see a level playing field.

Left as it is it'll just become duel wield universe and when are we going to acknowledge it's a problem? When 4 out of 5 dps are sitting in a raid doing bow flurry?

These words?

I can pick any power in the game and win 9 out of 10 dps matches against any power set bc most pug groups have below average dps. You having success with quantum doesn't mean its on par. I can introduce you to a gadgets dps whom you'd struggle to do 50% of his damage out. Me saying you clearly arent as informed about dps as some others isn't to shut down discussion its to point out a difference in expertise. I never once said you are unskilled I said you don't main or even often play in dps role and have less experience than others.

Yes lets be brutally honest, you're responses have been for the most part pretentious and unrelated to many of the issues I have brought up. I have said more than 5 times that nerfing these abilities will not bring balance to the game but instead flood us with more earth, gadgets and munitions players. I've pointed out that there has never been balance in this game and people always flock to what they think is best. I've pointed out that the number of might players still outweigh the number of precision players.

You say I've attacked you personally yet you've called my opinion ridiculous, asinine and atrocious. The most I've done is point out your rude behavior and called your sentiments about balance niave. So whose personally attacking who?

Also would like to add that this is simply the best way to do damage with weapons not the best way to do damage. So its unlikely there will ever be 4 dps standing in the back using flurry as you mentioned.

That was after I had been mocked about 6 times already. Cherry pick comments after attacking them and you'll usually find comments like those.

Also the "you're putting words in my mouth" was in reference to him saying I was afraid of change so no not those words.

You may not like the way I communicate or the words I choose to describe your responses but they're not personal attacks.

They're descriptive of my opinion of your opinion and I don't doubt you dislike it, but that part of it I really don't care about I'm not here to please you or even make friends with you, I'm here to discuss a topic.

I don't really care about your gadgets friend, I don't care how good he thinks he is, how good you think he is, how good he really is or how good you think I am, its all irrelevant.

What this comes down to is DW balanced with other weapons is it over hitting compared to others do we buff others, sure maybe the devs might nerf something, that's their prerogative.

That does not mean though we shut down discussion and start making assumptions about other players because the big Nerf word scares us.

For what its worth I will be continuing to watch for balance and where I see it's unbalanced I'll be submitting info to the devs and opening discussions, if you don't like that then, oh well...

These are his only posts to you prior to your calling his thread "crap" and affirming that his motivation was "being mollywhipped by a precision dps". Word for word.

Yep, you were his victim 6 times. You're practically a saint, lol.

There are ways to disagree without being combative. I could say your ideas are moronic or I could point out the ways in which I believe you are wrong. You are the first example. And if you want open and honest discussion you should be the second. Otherwise all your future balance threads will turn out like this one. I'm done responding though so go ahead and make your final insult. I've realized the only thing keeping this nonsensical thread from disappearing off the front page is me responding to your insults.

It's awesome to see the mountains of data you provide for all of this certainy.

Also, if I follow your reasoning, you're saying...

1. Bringing 2 OP moves into line (if they are in fact out of line in the first place) would completely unbalance the game...

2. The game is unbalanced by nature, has never been balanced and we shouldn't care if it's unbalanced or not?

So it's not OK for him to say that he "finds the very idea ridiculous..."

But it is OK for you to say a thread is "crap" and "nonsensical"?

Good thing we're all on the same page here...

Wow. That was an interesting read. Two people who would rather have unbalanced outliers than more DPS options derailing and personally attacking anyone that disagrees with them. This thread is indeed a classic. Mary, Cryo, wanderer, etc, they don't care about balance, they care about cheese and keeping their FoTM crutches. Nothing they have stated says otherwise and the only logical reason I see that they are making it unnecessary personal.

You put up a good fight proxy, but leave the weapon theeads to me for now on lol. You seem to be more of a target.

Newsflash, quantum is actually pretty good. If you want I can refer you to Obsidian Chill or any other quantum user that will show you otherwise.

You've purposely misinterpreted this entire thread thinking it's just asking for a flat on nerf when in reality it's asking for a buff. Are you against more dps options? Do you really just want to stick with bow and DW?? Do you really not want anything else to be viable?? This whole "the devs can't nerf things without breaking it" argument is irrelevant considering we already had nerfs/buffs since the revamp and none of them was overdone, it put the powers more in line where they needed to be.

You don't deny balance out of fear of something breaking. Some of us like having options when we dps, just because you want to keep things as they are doesn't mean everything is fine and you attack anyone elses skillset that may think otherwise...just cause proxy plays support more doesn't mean he's not a good DPS. I play DPS more than I heal, I don't like healing as much, but I will solo heal any content in the game with strong confidence. Just cause people have preferences doesn't mean they're not good at anything else.

Actually read the thread not the op. He calls the combos cheese and OP and that they need to be brought in line with other combos. If hes asking for a buff he'd be saying the opposite.

Obsidian is a top notch player. I have no doubt hes great on quantum. If he played himswlf using gadgets hed get smoked.... By himself

They are cheese. Are players using them more than other weapon combos to competively dps? Yes. Are they the only combos to give players desired performance as whole for precision DPS? Sure. Some other combos come close but those are the clear outliers.

Are there people in this thread that keep defending those specific combos while ignoring any other combo? Yes.

Those combos are cheese, a crutch, and they do need to be bought in line, but that line needs to be raised up for every other weapon, not lowered for DW and bow. You have a severe case of selective reading in this thread.

Actually to correct this statement and I've said it before and in this thread.

I don't care one way or the other, if the devs decide they want to nerf them because they think they're op then that's their prerogative.

I however just want too see the weapons be equal in comparison to each other neither a buff nor a nerf but more an entire weapons pass to make them all have similar to equal potential while also considering that against other forms of damage dealing I.e PFtT and hybrid.

If PFtT needs a nerf I'd equally advocate for that but what is of the utmost importance is that all methods have similar potential to avoid players bandwagonning one thing.

That is no longer creating options and it isn't long before this piss poor community starts insisting players play a certain way or else.

I would rather they buff everything up to equal levels but at the same time I'm not scared to talk about nerfing something that's over parsing from a damage perspective because I actively do my best not to rely on FoTM crutches in the first place.

In addition to this they introduced the venom wrist into the game with little testing on overall impact on balance with boosts on it that are fueling the combos I'm talking about while leaving all others redundant.

That is ridiculous on every level and was a concern I raised the moment these things dropped.