SM High Round Tanking "Controversy"/"Cheese"

Facts

1 & 2. Looks like Costs deleted it because it was sitting at a 80% dislike ratio because even with the sped up footage memz was bouncing around the room lunging, doesn't matter I have saved the video and will include footage of it in mine so you'll see it in there but it was a R29-30 video inbetween his last 2 uploads

3. What video are you watching of that? if you are talking about the Minotaur Giving Me Horns one you can plainly see all costs is doing is perma doing a lunge but clipping it with a power for the entire 12min. The only time he doesn't is when minotaur is charging and you can even see at 1:36 he stays too close just lunging and gets killed by flurry after a daze. At that points its just hoping that minotaur stands up and does focus blast again and if he doesn't just lunge clip again a second later.

3.5. I'm not saying pve tanks would be good in pvp that's entirely different, the counter mechanics may be the same but you aren't dealing with a AI where either their moveset is telegraphed or follows a pattern where a player will be consistently hiding or clipping what he would be doing. Look at all the talk/threads about Soilder bugging out and clipping his skulls, if regular bosses did that in PVE there would be enormous struggle from groups with bosses being able to cancel pre-programmed attacks into anything else. M

My question to you is that all these pvp tanks knowing that lunging works and use it to avoid dmg WHY AREN'T THEY GOOD ENOUGH TO TIME IT EACH TIME? Do you go into a match and just spam lunges on someone that baits a BB or you think they'll do a BB? How about everytime HoB faced Platinum I would just keep spam lunge clipping Mrs Polka the ENTIRE match because she may BB at anytime LOL is that going to work out for me? of course not but that is EXACTLY what all these "PvP" tanks are doing. I think its HILARIOUS that you want to keep bringing up PvPers with respect to lunge mechanics when the biggest joke of all in this because if they were actually good pvpers they wouldn't need to repeatedly spam and could time it themselves just like they'd do in a match but apparently pve is too had for them because they can't do it and have to spam it to survive

omg no please ultraman don't use stomp smash 5 times in a row on me please help me I don't know what to do except lunge for my life

4. Then I guess any team who ever lost to me is holding the FAT L because they lost to a player just lunging and giving out blues

5. Once again you are only looking at this from the tank perspective, next time you are on Round 29 tell your controller just to spam lunge repeated on solider, or you can wait till I actually show it, and see if he dies at all to anything except the nuke. You can also die hiding behind the ice block, they fixed that in pano when that was still relevant, plenty have died that way in runs, the same way they fixed it going through amazon.

You on an outright different version of the game? He virtually never does that. I think I've had maybe one run where he opened trying to do a few back to back Smashes but he doesn't typically pop that **** back to back to back.

I'm not the one who said it..

Ok, I thought you were agreeing/implying it was normal. I agree that's bad luck.

Lets not forget youre the person who said lunge spamming is as cheesy as using henchmen,the person who said US will lunge immidiately after his mortar(you forgot basic counter mechanics there),the person who said 90%+ of the pve tanks arent that good,yet you're using the easiest method to beat something that after all wasnt even that hard,the person who considers r25 whith lunge spamming challenging,the person calling out tanks for their youtube videos yet there is no proof of you doing anything that requires you a tiny bit of skill.
Last but not least,the person who's spreading false information because he lacks knowledge.

So you're nerfing the damage of the run having the troll do lunges instead of flurry because the tank can't lunge himself? Ok? Is there a difference between the troll doing lunges and not dying to Ultimate Soldier and Nu doing lunges repeatedly for Britteny in tank stance so he couldn't die to melee attacks from Shark? Any difference in just running 1 heal and 3 tanks for Johnny Quick considering his 1shot can't kill a tank and the healer can just stand clean acros the room? If you want to talk about avoiding damage/holding hands, I got examples lined up for that lol And no, you can't die from behind the block. I've seen several people including my leaguemates use that for R20 on Ultraman because they were new and messing up on being frozen. That still works. And I believe Crappy had to do it a few times so he can verify it.

So out of a 743 second video you found 13 seconds where "the timing worked out" then the rest of the 730 seconds you see the exact same rotation. Lunge>frostsnipe>roll/walk away>lunge>frostsnipe>double jump backwards>lunge>.frostsnipe repeated for the entire 30min ish round. If he was on PC you might as well just macro that and go take a nap or drive to the store etc because you wouldn't actually have to sit at your computer. This is why Minotaur was a terrible choice in the first place because all you do in the round is clip lunges with a shield or taunt and hope he does focus blast as soon as he stands up and repeat for 30min.

Even with lag and delay tanks still manage, Happy is in Turkey and the EUPS servers are in Amsterdam, Netherlands and that's 3000+ km connection difference, Stratos is in Greece thats 2500+ km. I am in Canada which when I play on EU thats almost 6000km distance im connecting to those severs not to mention what type of internet infrastructure they have in parts of Europe compared to what it is in North America and magically those tanks and myself can counter without this massive delay you think and Crash Allen thinks exists on this game. You faced Clutch before plenty of times in PvP and he's connecting to an american server from the UK while you are connecting to a sever is Las Vegas and Clutch seemed to be able to counter just as well didn't he? Same with The Vengeance. Lag/Delay isn't an excuse to not trying to practicing proper timing.

Survival Mode isn't about speed runs or doing it with 1x1x1 roles its just beating the round, there is no point to risk a wipe and run 1 tank for some faster dps when running with a second tank adds like 10-15min at the worst, it doesn't make any sense, even if the 2nd tank just sits there incase of a death you are still putting yourself in the best position to beat the round and it just takes longer. Like I said before as well Minotaur is a terrible example of a boss because all he does is stands up and does a one shot focus blast again.

AM era of PvP was terrible and just players sitting back and building up a brawl>haymaker so it hits the target on the last hit, or you have overpowered AMs like HL that could restore power to themselves and Nature taking VIT colas to do the same. AM pvp wasn't about pvp it was about which powersets you went in with to give you the highest advantage. Yea there were dedicated bbers in groups but they aren't just spamming it hoping they block because all that does is give the focus fire target someone to lunge each time for immunity. You had to do reactionary or predictive bb's and even then the predictive bb's could hinder you. You still did it so the dps wouldn't have to get their own counters but its not like you had them just sit and spam solar flame because you didn't even have the power to clip it to hide the animation and you didn't have nature healers in bug just spamming pulse beam either. I know I don't even have to tell you of all people this but don't act like I wasn't there for post server merge pvp just because you rarely ran with Platinum/Aesthetic because I was in plenty of matches against them in ques.

This "controversy" is dumb. This thread has devolved into people arguing about which variety of cheese is the true cheese. Reality check: everyone at higher levels is cheesing in one way or another, by design. The fact you can sit and wait for counters is cheese, the fact you can 2 tank and die through everything is cheese. Ping Ponging the boss is cheese (and has been a legitimate form of boss tanking for as long as MMOs have been a thing, but it's still cheese). Ranging attacks is cheese. Keeping a healer permanently out of range as an insurance policy is cheese. The fact you can abuse enemy AI hate table pathing to ensure safe res is cheese. There are hard limits on how "challenging" you can make MMO content and when the "difficulty" is a function of enemies dealing hyperbolic amounts of damage before letting people safely res, the fight itself is a both a cheese time sink and the limit of MMO game design in that the alternative is straight impossible. Same goes for scripted AI. All of this is player cheese vs enemy cheese, no matter how you slice it.

Everyone needs to calm down and stop deluding themselves. This isn't a competitive fighter or FPS or moba or RTS, it's a primarily PVE MMO. If people want more challenge, go play something purely competitive or take up speedrunning. Stop petitioning the devs to make horrible, archaic design choices like making periods of already hour long sustained "don't blink" combat even longer, or removing tools you don't like from the toolkit. Relax and enjoy the game. No one gaf about MMO epeen and their are far grindier and more masochistic and abusive MMOs out there if that's your thing.

The devs make better content when everyone keeps their hands out of their chili. When they drop the ball is when people start QQing for them to buff **** or make stuff a specific (archaic, bad) way.

Edit: This stuff wasn't as cheesy on launch as it is now. You used to be able to take way more non-cheese approaches, then some people complained it was too easy voila, everything that didn't used to require cheese magically requires some form of cheese. /golfclap

Dude i have no clue who are you and i really dont care whats your ague about im writing this because some of my friends told me you are trash talking about me sorry im very lazy to readall of this pages but since you are like to hear FACTS let me give you some

Survival Mode season one 2019 Round 30 World first without no PP and without lunge spam

Survival Mode Fos 2017 Round 16 World fist

Survival Mode Trigon 2017 Round 16 -

Survival Mode Oan 2017 Round 13 World first

Survival Mode HH 2017 Round 17 or 18 i cant remember

Survival Mode Fos 2016 Round 20 world first and only

And many more sm gameplays im not even talk about world first feats and raids done but m sure you can find some of them on youtube

Here this is a small examples for your FACTS im not a forum guy so probably i wont read your reply plus i dont like useless players like you like you said there is FACTS i give it to you and there is trashtalkers like you who doesnt have FACTS like mine
but still if people wanna talk or argue with me i like to talk with you guys on voice chat face to face pm me on discord or ingame
i will be happy to talk with you guys but dont do it on forums thanks for your time

God you sound like Nu. You can only list accomplishments that have 7 other people involved, rip.

Lol...

Yes why can’t people be happy for others no matter how they achieved their lil crowns as long as it wasn’t speed hacking! I’m sure you all don't peel your bananas the same way!

I think you just need to play a different game then, especially based on your SM threads thus far. I think you are expecting DCUO to be a game where everyone is the same power and everyone has the same abilities on their loadout. Maybe there are some mobas or cell phone mobile games that would better suit you because nearly all of what you said isn't cheese nor would it ever be classified as such, you are just comparing DCUO to other mmo's which it's not, its never been based on or share experiences with other mmos.

If there is anyone in this thread that would be served best from walking away and de-stressing it is not myself nor Shattered it is you.

This is no better than pretty much any other SM boss... they're all "do the mechanic and predictanle AoE for 30min" because that's essentially the absolute limit of MMO difficulty for any RPG or ARPG w/o FPS elements. MMO "hard" = test-taking and nothing will ever change that; it's boring, and DCUO in general doesn't design content that way. Everyone begging "hit me harder daddy" for more difficulty buffs doesn't seem to understand what that entails.

Bruh... magically, it's typically server side issues. ISP/player isn't the limfac here. The problem is that the servers aren't at all consistent. Some times, on some days, it'll be nice and tight. Some days it's mostly tight but with spikes in delay. Other days (especially this past week) it will sit at 1-3s of constant delay. This is why some days you can do US w/o ever triggering Arc and other days, despite being just as far away just as fast every time he triggers his logic deciding which skull attack he's going to do, he'll do Arc way more often.

Which is pure cheese.

Cute. Not only are those things in fact cheese, you already called some of them cheese yourself earlier. If you think two-tanking 4-man content isn't cheesy, I have a bridge to sell you.

Your ignorance of the similarities and differences between DCUO and other ARPG/RPG MMOs does not mean they don't exist. You also don't even fully grasp the mechanics of what you've been QQing about (which is par for the course, I guess).

Now do the same with breaking down Vsync and tell me that why you think this is perfectly ok compared to what Nu is doing.
Need I continue?

The thing about Clutch just sounds made up to the point where players were just upset losing to him and just assuming hes doing something different, wouldn't make any sense considering he did better on the EU server when players faced him compared to US because the UK is located close to the EU server location. Hard to believe that no other prominent EU pvpers did amazingly well on US because of that method then.

Yea I am WELL AWARE of what the A team was because you routinely stated that unless you were in the group any win against Platinum was invalid because it wasn't the true team but I don't recall nor flipping briefly youtube against Platinum despite numerous examples of Platinum A team being referred to as Polka, Mrs Polka, Flexing & Good Guy. Like I said running almost daily with HoB in all the ques I never ran into you even once, not saying you weren't queing but selecting when you ran, I can only control when I would run with HoB can't control when you chose to run.