Short end of the pvp stick?

I was curious: in terms of the RPS system that DCUO uses for pvp, which role do you feel gets the shaft in terms of buff/debuff? With all the new items now, like debuff grenades and debuff serum or what not, I'd assume that healers are loving pvp now?

Trollers might be hating it since it seems its harder to kill healers now.

Tanks... well I have no idea where they stand really lol.

Anyone care to chime in on where each role is on the totem pole?

(P.s: don't include dps. Yes, I accept that it is its own role, but it has no bearing on the rps system)

Tanks>Controllers>Healers>Tanks

It really depends on who brings the cheese and who brings the whine. (See what I did there?)

Lol thank you Kroye. I know how the RPS system works but thank you for the flowchart

Lets face it though, PvP is nowhere near as fun as it used to be back around the time that FC was at Star Labs. From there, its kind of gone downhill. But, some roles fell faster down the hill than others did.

I read another recent post complaining about how tanks are being phased out of pvp because their cleanses are garbage and consumables work better. Another about trolls complaining that healers (sorc in particular) has too many pets.

That's kind of what I'm looking for. What is it about one role that bumps it up or down against the other, even though in theory it should be weaker.

yeah, I understand what you were looking for. I just think in terms of straight up pvp (minus all the cheese and pets) the RPS still works for the most part.

The anti-debuff serums are pretty game-changing, but I'm not sure they're used as heavily across all servers. I've heard they're still fairly rare on EUPC and I suspect that the teams that are still using them on USPC are now using them sparingly because of the cost. If one were to purchase the bits to make them ,that's almost 400,000 for a stack of 12. That's crazy expensive, even for folks that have millions in the bank.

I would love to see tanks more frequently in pvp (healer here ) so I wouldn't mind seeing their cleanses getting improved, especially earth tanks. I don't notice Sorcery pets often in arenas, to be honest - I know they're there but I pay them little mind. The few sorcery healers I've faced in lair battles had them, but I suspect the player's skill level and/or gear level made it easy enough for me to defeat them.

Seems like I notice controllers everywhere, and as a healer I do see them as a bit OP - all that power regen, the shields, the debuffs, the turrets, ouch ouch ouch.

My point then , I guess, is that ""Who gets the short end of the stick" is probably relativity to the role you pvp in and how much cheese (pets/R&D Consumables / tactical mods) each player brings to the fight. We are all likely to think we get the short end of the stick in pvp compared to our counter role, but that can be overcome with pets/trinkets/consumables/etc.

from my personal experience playing toons with all roles in pvp except tank since HOME TURF, i have to say Trollers got the royal shaft end of the stick with Tactical mods for pvp.
besides Weakening field i could basically leave every other available tact mod and it wouldnt make a difference in arena.

Also, I can understand DPS only getting a 10% buff from Core strength, considering they have other armor slots for more damaging mods like escalating might and enduring damage....
but Trollers only getting 10%? with both Healers and Tanks getting basically an additional 25% damage now, how the heck is the ROLE RPS balanced anymore?
I'm just not seeing how Controller tact mods make up for that 15%, and then also trying to keep up with the insane new DPS potential with the right mods.

/end rant.

Gee, maybe it's because Trollers are the ONLY special role that inherent suffers no Damage Penalty?! Tanks and Healers take a penalty without having Core Strength, which just brings them back up to where they were normally. Trollers get that for free. I don't see this as unfair at all.

i am not saying it is "unfair".
all i am saying is that the change in possible damage output has improved 25% for 2 out of 3 roles in the RPS system, but only 11% (w/penetrating strikes) for the other---Controllers.
i have no issue with changing the the damage balance in the RPS persay, but basically this equates to an overall 'BUFF' for the 2 roles, so if before HOME TURF the role system was considered balanced for 2 years, then how can it possibly still be balanced?
like i said, maybe the Devs thinking is that there are other mods besides damaging mods that make up ground for Trollers in the RPS system... but i'm just not seeing it.

I am 100% impartial on this subject. i like to play Arenas with all the roles.
with Boost 2 mods though, i think it is clear cut now the order of "powerful" classes:
1. Healers
2. DPS
3. Tanks
4. controllers


Regardless of opinions, i think post DLC Arena Role Balancing is a very pressing issue.

Trollers have it the worst.

Resto is so high now debuffing is meaningless. Plus the introduction of useable items make keeping a debuff up impossible.

Don't expect a fix anytime soon. : ( Reason: Block being the most powerful move in pvp speaks volumes.

R.I.P. Awesome DCUO pvp

Fair enough, but let me present to you the following...

Core Strength does indeed improve the Tank and Healer's damage potential by +25%. DPS and Trollers receive 'only a +10%" increase. All true. But we look at the fact that Tank and Healers suffer a -20% to -25% damage penalty in their role. The best they see with Core Strength is a +5% increase really. Now then you could still stick with Core Strength as a Troller BUT you really ought to be looking at Penetrating Strike which reduces Defense and Toughness by a huge margin, almost by half in PVP stats. Your overall net increase in damage output will be greater as a troller, especially when you factor in your Confidence role bonuses against healers. Against tanks, you'll still do better than you would with the Core Strength Mod, but remember there's only so much you can stack against the figurative Rock versus your scissors. But as I was trying to state here, it's not about a parallel bonus, it's thinking outside the box and seeing what plays to your strengths. In this case, Core Strength was meant to appeal more to Tanks and Healers.

Let's also not forget that while Healers and Controllers generally wear Role Gear (or a mix of Role and DPS), that Tanks generally wear full DPS gear and don't really lose much of their 'Tankyness'. So when Tanks suddenly are hitting 25% harder, they're hitting harder in DPS gear - making Controllers that much squishyer since our shields are useless against them. Meanwhile, the class that is supposed to be weak to us can ignore our debuffs, they have better heals and they're also hitting 25% harder (and don't even get me started on Watchers and Clown Boxes). It's nothing that can't be overcome - but my longest Lair Duels are against Healer classes and there just seems to be something wrong about that.

I will admit that I'm biased - but Controllers are at a disadvantage at this point in the game. It's a minor disadvantage, but it's there. (Though today's U23 may change some of that).

Does that apply to iconic Hard Light Shield or the Central City trinket shield?

I've never tested it, but supposedly any offensive Tank power will wipe a Controller's Shield (whether in Controller or DPS stance). At least that's they way we've been told it's supposed to work.

if you are a troller and cant take out a healer,then you are horrible.

This is the reality, trollers debuffs stick, and they stick for awhile, especialy the defense debuff. Sometimes my pvp trinket cant remove troller debuffs. and the tank immunities are just as bad.
and not to mention all the mods trollers could run with now, ignoreing 775 toughness, empowered chaneling, regenitive shield, exct.


Trollers are by far the most op class in the game,trollers can befuff EVERYONE, trollers can remove EVERYONES power over time, and you get no damage penalty for being in troll stance. Your debuffs stick even threw tank/pvp trinket/debuff protection serum immunities. And you have powers that break you out of CC effects, such as distract and grandeur.

the imbalances from this dlc doesn't stem from the mods, but from the pets and utility drops.

also one more thing, debuffs are not supposed to be up on someone the whole fight, pvp isn't pve so stop the qq about healers not staying debuffed for the 15 minuets you are in a arena with them. imo trollers debuffs need to be adjusted, or the immnites need revamping, because they just do not work half the time.

this is how it is, IF you use core strength.

Healer get the 25% penalty removed,

tanks get the 20% penalty removed.

Trollers get a +10%,

trollers still hit harder... its simple. not to mention the confidence boost or any consumable they decide to use.


if anyone is considered op it is dpses, they have access to "DPS Only" mods that increase damage %60 percent, ontop of ignoreing 775 toughness, on top of impowered chanelling.... as far as mods go, tanks and healers have the weakest ones, and trolls and dpses are able to combine the better ones.

Nothing you just posted is true, Did someone tell you that? Are you being trolled? I think you being trolled...
Shield generators, Trinkets make debuffing a healer impossible; The cool down is far to short... As for group pvping even if your tank sucks and doesn't wipe off the debuff, a healer can kite and heal just as effectively debuffed or not since it's a percentage debuff.. You must not be very good at pvp or pvp often? The damage a troller can do to a healer doesn't matter since his resto is so high, Little kiting and boom back to full. No damage restriction on healers and a suppose damage buff trolls get that can't be seen when t4 vs t4 make tolls the worst spectrum class.

It's simple
Good Healers Smash good Tanks
Good Tanks Smash Good Trolls
Good Trollers Fight Good Healers

*those 2 BOLD portions are contradicting, arent they?
i dont follow how you get 5%. its the full 20-25% isnt it? there entire damage penalty is removed.

also, here is the test i already posted about core strength vs PS for Trollers in pvp:
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo...-vs-pentrating-strikers-for-troller-pvp.1282/


AND finally it is NOT about how much damage is being done post HOME TURF or if its balanced NOW--- Its about the fact that the damage balance has drastically changed which in turn effects the RPS counter role balance. --so, if Trollers got the least upgrade in damage by 10-15%, then how can overall RPS balance not have been affected?

do yourself a favor before i embarrass you.

test the immunities from the trinkets out. put a defense debuff and a heal debuff on a healer, hit the trinket, and look what happens. Then next try it with the tank immunities.

Half the time the defense debuff stays. and most of the time the debuffs can be placed back on right after the trinket is hit...

And let me teach you a few things about group pvp.
First off... healer damage is a joke, even with core strength, so any decent healer running in 5s usualy chooses extended SC.
Secondly any good tank, runs with 1 immunitiy or no immunities, simply because they do not work. they remove the healing debuff for about a second.. if that, and they don't remove the defense debuff.
Thirdly... if you are in a premade... and your troller or tank can not ground the ff target... then you guys just suck...
Fourthly... the trollers dps in group pvp is very important, and the new mods that have came out has made them even more hard hitting and dangerous. Come to 5v5 chat and sync a few matches... you might learn a few things.

and my last point... stop basing your opinions about pvp imbalances in a 1v1 scenario. This game isn't based off 1v1s....



"No damage restriction on healers and a suppose damage buff trolls get that can't be seen when t4 vs t4 make tolls the worst spectrum class."

and this... LOOOOOL.... you really need to learn how to play... the damage bonus is very noticable in trollers but if trollers run core strength.. you are a noob, ignoring 775 toughness is far better for a troll and dps. You just suck if you are losing to healers.. especialy in 1v1.

Well first off, no. Assuming Tank or Healer Role automatically puts you down between 20-25% damage as an engine mechanic. So Core Strength is not negating that penalty and then giving you another bonus 25% on top of that. That's just you misreading how it works. What Core Strength is doing is granting a +25% bonus to offset the role penalties. So if you are an Ice Tank, you lose 20% then gain 25%, giving you a net bonus of +5%. If you are an Electric Healer, you lose 25% and then gain 25%, leaving you with a net gain/loss of zero.

And your last assumption is flawed because of your failure to understand how Core Strength works, and furthermore your testing of Penetrating Strike was against a very modest Toughness. Try testing incrementally against high Toughness Tanks such Ice and you'll begin to see where basically halving the base Defense/Toughness mitigation is an enormous difference. Use a large cross section of various opponents and increase the Defense/Toughness each time. Even against Earth and Fire, there's a huge offset. This is a big bonus as Tanks are supposedly the Paper to counter Trollers' Rock. However as has pointed by Mista E and numerous threads on how Tanks have become marginalized in PVP, trollers now have another way to assert themselves out of weakness against their 'hunter' power type/role and increase their advantage against their 'prey' power type/role. I play characters of each role, and it has been my experience that the troller role is the easiest and the one with the most inbuilt advantages. Quite simply the QQ-ing about trollers not getting enough is laughable.

omg. i understand the math.

Tanks and Healers ALWAYS had a damage penalty, but now they can wipe it, in effect they are doing 25 % more damage than was possible a month ago.

Trollers never had a damage penalty but now they can use PS to gain 11% more damage than a month ago.
I don't know how to explain it any other way, lol.

Tank and Healers got a overall buff to damage equaling 14 % more than Controllers.
so, the RPS role balance in regards to damage is completely different than before Home Turf.

Wow, you just don't get it do you? Trollers were already OP. This new update didn't "nerf" the trollers because they didn't get the same +25% buff as tanks and healers. That would have been ridiculous. You should be thankful they got the ability to wear any of the DPS oriented mods at all.