My Ideal Controller Power

I get where you are coming from, less work means a higher chance of getting some implimentation. Originality is also a factor though and it's not inconceivable you could convince the devs the effort is worth making to bring the game something refreshing and new.

My method is go the whole hog and throw everything in and let other people decide how they want to distil it. Keeping the ideas intact is essential to give people the opportunity to do that.

Post Quantum and Celestial it might take some time to interest the devs in coding a new powerset so the thread will prolly need to be bumped for a year or so. No idea when the next slot is available, they might be planning Atomic next.

Just reading the revised powers now

MANIFESTATION

PANIC: The main problem is npcs running out of range and losing a target lock. It might be annoying to chase mobs, frustrating to build combos with a melee weapon (would have to lunge all the time) and spreading npcs might also make it harder for the DPS/Tank.

Vanishing Winds: Heh, oh boy are you cranking up the love with Tier 1 stealth plus POT and second loadout . Normally Stealth is 30 seconds cooldown, so what cooldown on this? Too long a cooldown is going to nerf the powersets POT. How about: The character becomes invisible >>for a maximum of 3 seconds or until they attack<<. The power is tactical because it lets you cast selective powers from stealth (without interruption) and gives you that important second loadout so the stealth portion doesn't have to be that high, just enough to cast another power safely or perform a Deadly Strike.

Deadly Strike: Might want to make this Hold Melee or Hold Ranged so as not to shoehorn toons into using a melee weapon.

Monstrous Roar: Something more ghostly sounding please, maybe "Wail", "Keening" or "Echoes of the Grave". Would prefer more appropriate audio too. For variance I would also suggest 3 ticks of instant power, this would be a slower instant dump but would give 3x chances to critical power hit for a statistically higher average power out. Vulnerable to Interrupt same as Roar? Dunno if that is tied to the animation or hard coded.

Spectral Visitor: Throwing some more stuff in -"Intangible", "Visitation" or "Poltergeist". I'm kind of umming and aahing over how you've worked this, what kind of cooldown did you envisage for the power? 10 seconds is a long time for complete damage immunity so that's a minimum of 30 seconds I reckon. The fact it restores health/power might mean the cooldown has to be pushed up to 50-60 seconds just for balance. Again the main thrust of the power is tactical, I would swap the healing portion out to offer more usability. Suggesting 3 seconds immunity with a cooldown of 10 seconds. That's 9 seconds immunity for 30 seconds cooldown which is about the same but lets PVP players have a chance to get some damage though and the controller the opportunity to use the power more often. Lastly, even though immaterial it is still logical to believe the toon could be affected by energy damage (powers) so possibly some thinking needed on this.

Unstoppable: Something more ghostly sounding please "Revenant", "Grave Robber" or "Reanimate" as suggestions. You have the power decription listed in Tier 3 instead of Tier 5. Technically it probably couldn't be worked the way you designed it but gadgets has a similar type of shield power with a long duration that activates when your health drops below 35%, this might be a worthy alternative to what you want. There seems to be a lot of self healing in the powers which is an overall concern.

Desperate Soul: covered this previously. Very, very powerful ability for PVP and combined with Unstoppable which would revive you after you made your sacrifice... If allowed would need to specify that the toon will not be raised with Unstoppable if they use it.

Mysterious Howl: copy/paste error again appears in Tier 3 and Tier 5. Should be vulnerable to interrupt (high damage, 60% modifier)

Guiding Light: Nice idea Dreadful if used incorrectly, awesome if used intelligently, a great example of how a balanced power should behave. Compliments.

MANIPULATION

HAUNTED: It would be really nice if you could set up power interactions with PANIC.

Ectoplasmic Ball: "Nether Bolt" possibly. How about this adds DOTs rather than burst damage? Thinking ahead to Ectoplasmic Blast and how a DOT power would help more in PVP.

Binding Smoke: "Binding Shadows", "Spook", "Frightening". Looks good, AOE CC is very welcome.

Ectoplasmic Burst: How about setting up an Ice power interaction with this one?

Veiled Mist: "Shadow Walk", "Astral Walk". Covered this before about maybe teleport should be Quantum only but it kinda fits the powerset a lot.

Shroud of War: Something more ghostly sounding please, maybe "Energy Drain". Yeah, been wondering if an idea like this would pop up. Only thing I would say is it should regenerate the controllers power and the controller should then dump rather than be funneled directly because it's just a tiny bit too convenient. If the ghost troller was allowed to fuel the party through melee alone in PVP it would make them enemy #1 and they would be heavily ganged; better to let healers take that burden It all depends on how much power out you are expecting melee hits to provide as to how acceptable it is. Obviously the intention of the powerset is to mix it up and layer multiple sources of power regen rather than just have a standard POT and dump but it still has to balance with the other powersets I guess.

Electroplasmic Shell: being seriously nitpicky here, forgot to highlight instant power dump in yellow Cooldown has to be long enough to prevent stacking from the same player, but obviously support stacking from two or more different players casting on the same enemy.

Shadow Guard: Love the idea of spawning pets that give power out when killed. I would prefer many tiny pets with low health that just draw aggro away from the controller and act as fodder (like the scarab beetles in the Isis Temple). The dual pets seem very powerful in giving the controller 50% damage mitigation for a normal power so you have to look closely at how much Health the pets have. Don't forget there is a lot of self healing in the powerset which the mitigation is going to stack with. Might be wise to make it a Supercharge power if you want to keep it as is.

Hand of Doom: How about a pull instead of a knockdown? I think this would be more useful because you can use Vanishing Winds to panic, stealth and drop aggro or use Spectral Visitor to tank. If enemies are going to run around with Panic then a pull would be very handy. This could easily be a normal power too instead of a Supercharge, unless you are planning for uber damage.

Will O Wisps: How about Electrified instead of knockdown for setting up some electrical power interactions?. And you are talking about a micro power dump like a tick every second or two? Well 1/4 strength has to be balanced against the fact there are four wisps, so combined you are actually talking about a full power dump so duration of the power and tick duration is going to be important. Gotta consider the controller can dump instant power on top of that too, but I guess that's the intention of finding a way to push intense amounts of power out. It could look really cool to have those wisps flying around within swirling shadows and mists. Very interesting idea.

Shadow Web: Very nasty. Only problem with this is AOE damage. Consider 5 linked targets in an AOE: they are going to effectively multiply the damage of the blast by 5x. eg. if they all take 50 damage from the blast then one individual player takes: 50 damage + (50 damage from the other four players, 50x4 =200 damage) = 250 damage. Other thing to point out is how quickly players break out of CC and if in fact you could ever exploit the effect. Having said that, I figure you probably know all this already

Phew! 5 hours. Hope this helps.

This could be annoying... Might want to limit Panic effects to 1 or 2 powers... Good point.

Thought about putting Vanishing Winds higher, but decided invisibility is one of the main aspects of being a ghost, so I left it at Tier 1. With the 25 second PoT cycle, I see 30 seconds cooldown. Sounds like a lot, but can't double-tick with this being it's disadvantage. You have to have the other PoT power to double tick, and it can't be used while invisible.

Deadly Strike: Since it's made from stealth, I'd keep this melee. Otherwise, a hard-hitting sneak attack would have little to no disadvantage. Because it's a melee lunge, if it doesn't do the job, you gotta be ready to fight your way out of it.

Agree on the name... Like the suggestion of Keening. Would be interruptable, but also allow shorter usage if the button/key is tapped instead of held.

I debated making this a supercharge for the reasons you mention for balancing time v cooldown. I think I'd leave the exact times to a later calculation after testing... That's the only real way to make sure it isn't OP.
As for powers working... Logically, some powers should work quite well against an intangible foe, and others shouldn't. Generally, intangible is denoted as immune to fire, ice, earth, nature, and gadgets as well as weapons, but sometimes (depending upon the character/situation) immune to electric, light, and mental, while almost always vulnerable to sorcery, divine (celestial), and time manipulation (Quantum) powers. Do you see the problem here? You couldn't give certain powers their logical ability to hit while giving others their logical inability to hit.

Shadow Web was, I thought, one of the most unique things in the entire powerset. Didn't even think about AoE damage powers! Shows how often I play DPS!!!

Sorry to cut the reply short - gotta get ready for work: Thanks for your feedback! Will post more replies and thoughts later.

1. "Vanishing Winds" Hiding powers have VERY long cooldown. So it's absolutely useless to cast PoT. Currently all hiding powers absolutely useless for anything.
2. Instant power dumps, that activate with changing a form. What's that? Controller who must constantly changed itself. Interesting, but how it could remember, what is current loadout?
3. That "Veiled Mist" is 2 powahs in one (aggro drop + powah dump)! Already want!
4. "Ectoplasmic Shell". Another owerpovered thing. All debuffes + power dump.
5. Where are DoT's? Where's weapon buffing power? It seems you created pure controlling powah, that cannot be DPS.

Also i think, ideal Controller Power could be like that:
Tree 1: Tier 1:
!!!DA POWAH!!! - leaves on every teammate effects, that in 1000 seconds restore every second 999 power to all group members.
Tree 2: Tier 1:
Disable - leaves aura on character in 1000 seconds, that in far range stuns all emenies every 1 second, also casts all debuffs to them, also drops off aggro, also shields teammates.

But that spectral powers is cool too.

1. Vanishing Winds is concept power. This will be one way to see if people know how to play - if they know they need the other PoT to double tick!. This may be adjusted within mechanics - we'll see... Details like this are why I welcome your input!

2. Several Nature powers and the stealth powers already have special loadouts. This would work the same. Especially since there's only 1 alteration in the latest set...

3. You'll see power dump riding piggy-back on several powers here, but there is no power dump only. This is meant to allow the troller to provide power while doing his other jobs.

4. Removed Ectoplasmic Shell's debuffs in latest version. This was one of the things I thought was overdone.

5. Ectoplasmic Shell is the only DoT, I think. Weapon Buffing in Strength of the Grave and Shroud of War = Strength of the Grave wasn't in the original list. It's been added while dropping two of the doom forms. Also, you're right. This powerset would be far superior as a controller than a dps. But, it does have plenty of damage options and several PI options that most of the powers can use. I guess that's why it's my ideal Controller power and not my ideal DPS power! LOL! I think the PIs would balance the lack of DoT in this powerset once you got used to it.

Thanks for your comments!

Grave Robber is a cool name for it! Copy paste error put it in Tier 4. Might still come up with something completely different, because, you're right... I think I ended up with more self-heals than I intended to!

Maybe Haunting should be a tank powerset instead? Nah! I like Controlling!

In the latest, I believe I added usable in PvE only... Maybe in the Tier 5 description! LOL! Had a few errors... Lousy maximum post size!
Unstoppable and Desperate Soul! Very devious mind you have there. I think I would have loved playing the old-style RPG's with you!
You're right, shouldn't be able to use the two powers together... Maybe another reason to find something else for Unstoppable's spot. Maybe a good DoT...

Thanks.
Again, this power would probably benefit highly-skilled players far more than beginners. Its use would either be fantastic or horrible.

Very interesting idea... Definately something to consider...

Nether Bolt! Very cool! Not sure if we should combine DoT with PoT in one power, though...

I went with smoke, because that's how I envision it. Wisps of smoke holding the stunned mobs.. Not as dark as shadows... don't want to obscure the view.

Chill of the Unknown? Thought about something like this... Maybe I should think some more.
Also thought about Hellfire to set up interactions with fire.

Veiled Mist sounds misleading - like the power itself. One of the reasons I like the name.
As for Quantum, if they give up PoT and instant power which they stole from Mental and Gadgets, as well as all PI's and DoT's and all the other mechanics they coppied from other powers, I will agree to pull this one. Until then, if Quantum can utilize concepts from other powers, so can Haunting!
LOL!

Given the definition of a shroud, the name is ghostly, imo. War, however, may be debatable.
I don't see this giving huge amounts of power. How much damage do most weapons do with each strike? I know that both my PoT tick and my instant dump value are significantly higher than a weapon's damage. IF I ran a 100 hits, sure, that would be something, but how high can a controller (or even a dps) even get the hit counter in PvP?

Better? LOL!
Good point on cooldown! Especially since this is DoT. But, it's somewhat self-balancing by the immunity to weapons within the shell...

I didn't even think of this!
Might just do away with damage mitigation and keep them as distractions/with power when killed.

A pull would be interesting, but I don't think this is the power for it.
As for supercharge or no - giving aggro to the target sounds pretty damn powerful to me! Like putting a curse on the target that makes him a target!
And, I'm thinking it would be fairly low damage. The point is that the target then pulls aggro - drawing adds (and pets) away!

Love the electrified idea! Haven't worked the math, but if a troller's PoT ticks for 200, then getting a charge from a Wisp should give that character around 50, imo. Not too much, because only a few teammates will be hit by them, and they might be hit only once each... 1/4 strength was meant to signify lower power out, but I haven't really worked on the math for the formula. As far as I can tell, this is a new concept for giving power.

I see the wisps like the electrons of an atom, passing through walls, ceilings, floors, etc, with half the radius of an orange barrel's effects. Each would take 2 to 3 seconds to circle the controller, so it wouldn't be slam, slam,slam for the entire duration. There may even be times that the wisps don't hit any allies or don't hit any enemies.
They would be most useful, however, when the controller is surrounded or in the center of the group.

Thanks for the input!

Need to figure out where to put another DoT, and define any ice/fire interactions! Good ideas!

Welcome back! Thanks and yeah I can be devious - probably the PVP player coming out in me as I have a knack for integrity testing and skill hunting. I also am a hobbyist games designer and ex-rpger (like yourself I suspect) which also helps.

Mostly the elements that are missing are the power interactions for elec/fire/ice/daze/crush, a DOT power and powers vulnerable to interrupt.

Ectoplasmic Ball: I would love a DOT for a POT power. It discomforts me a bit having to monitor the lightning bolt since I have to move my field of view away from the action and it would be enjoyable to monitor POT by watching a DOT instead. In fact there is an argument with DOTs that they are inferior to burst powers because they are slower, thus easier to heal from and some of the damage might be wasted. Slightly higher damage from extra critical hits kinda takes all that into account.

Hand of Doom: Oh I completely missed that you are cursing the enemy with aggro. Yeah that would definitely be a supercharge and it would be *really* nice if it worked on players - as in a red player became a green player (changed alignment)! Supercharge cost is debatable and should be based on duration. Remember, further crowd control like panic is going to disable a lot of those henchmen and prevent them from aggroing the boss..

Desperate Soul: Sadly you can't really create a power for use in only one kind of content; it's such a great idea it would be a real pity to lose it but I think we can make it work. It needs to be balanced for PVP so how about coming to a compromise and saying that allies revive on only 25% health and power. Would still need testing, even 25% power might be enough for the healers/trollers to bring the group fully back up. And then you have to worry that the team has 2x ghost controllers, so there are two Desperate Souls to burn through...hmm. Can we put a cooldown on a supercharge power? You might need to put a huge cooldown on the thing, like 5-10 minutes.

Unstoppable/Grave Robber: I say keep it but work it like the gadgets shield that triggers on low health (below 50%). It also needs to stack with other shields because when you are being hammered and bleeding health rapidly (PVP), my experience with the gadget shield was often that it didn't have enough time to script before I died. In this situation you need to manually put up a shield just to give the script time to kick in (which is why it has to stack).

Shroud of War: Shroud of Pain? Death Shroud?. Your point about weapon hits noted. My issue with Menace is how little use I actually get out of it. I like what you are doing here in trying to give the controller a little tick of power with weapon hits. Actually, how about making this an instant power skill? You know, it really doesn't matter if every controller power in the powerset dumps if the amount it dumps is always the same... you are just giving the player options for how they decide to do it.

Ectoplasmic Burst: Honestly I like the name. I thought undead matter might suit some kind of cold/ice interaction. Chill of the Unknown is a fab name, why not design a new power? Always nice to have options before you make the final cut.

Veiled Mist: If you're happy then so am I

Will o Wisps: Since they are in themselves part of a power their power tick will have be based on the controllers Vitality. You have too look at the fact it is free power and it offsets the casting cost of the Will o Wisp power itself. The balance is in making sure that the power does not return more power than the casting cost of the Will o Wisp power itself ** because the controller can also benefit and get power in from the wisps **. So if the casting cost is 300, then the power generated by the four combined has to be capped to never exceed 300. Otherwise (PVP) a ghost troller could cast for 300, get four wisps giving 6 ticks of 50 power each, thats 1200 power in for 300 power out, a net gain of 900 power! In PVP the wisps would make the controller unstoppable, particularly as the pets are dealing damage as well (and getting in the way of targeting, tanking damage when they do etc.). Going to be hard to get this skill balanced right.

Rock on!

Forgot to use reply so just quickly posting for your Alerts. Pleasure anyway

Another question - from DC universe who has powers like that? Gentleman Ghost maybe - and who else? It seems it more related to Ghostbusters, than DC comix universe.

The answer to Desperate Soul is simple... Allies revive, and their Health is not full; It jsut works as if all the gears were manipulated at once - pick up, but just the normal pick-up. Everyone must heal themselves or be healed as normal.

Still thinking about power interactions, and what can be done about Unstoppable.

Originally, I had a Possession power, but thought that would bring too much crying from PvP, and the devs would have to create a loadout for every mob, add, etc in the game in case of possession. Waaaay too much work and too much trouble.

Gentleman Ghost, definately. Shadow Thief in part. With the possession, it would create Deadman and Jericho. Parts of it could be applied with the right iconic powers to Grundy, The Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, The White Martians.

Also, what if you apply the same logic to the existing powers?

FIRE: This is Redstar, if you know who he is. Otherwise, it's Marvel's Human Torch. Only parts of it fit Heatwave and The Human Flame. Firestar, Firestorm, and Firehawk aren't actually fire powers, so they don't apply.

ICE: This is Marvel's Iceman. Sure, Captain Cold, Icicle, Mr. Freeze, and Killer Frost have ice powers, but none of them use them for defense.

EARTH: Terra. That's it. Don't say Geo-Force - his powers don't work that way if you read the comics.

LIGHT: Green Lanterns, Yellow Lanterns, Alan Scott, and Jade. Though the power is highly limited, it is one of the best fits for DCUO.

GADGETS: Lots of people use these too.

MENTAL: The Martian Manhunter, Maxima, who else? Also, these need iconics as well, and are still missing powers. Oh, yes... Dr. Psycho and Hector Hammond.

QUANTUM: Parts of the Space Tree resemble Geo-Force's powers - Gravity Control. The Time Tree? I've seen animated villains with these powers, but no one that I remember reading in the comics. Both Captain Atom and Major Force are actually ATOMIC if you read the comics. Sure, Captain Atom can overload and quantum jump into the future, but that's his weakness, not his power. Imagine Queuing for Nexus, then you find yourself in the WT. Doesn't matter if the raid wiped or won, you weren't there, and get nothing. THIS is the extent of Captain Atom's actual Quantum abilities - over which he has no control. KID QUANTUM of the Legion is the only one I can think of in comics... and that's not for another 1000 years in an alternate realilty that no longer exists.

SORCERY: Lots of magic in comics. Haven't seen anyone use this particular style of magic, but that's not that important.

NATURE: Half the power fits Poison Ivy and/or Swamp Thing. The other half fits Beast Boy - with severe limitations.

LIGHTNING: Works for Black Lightning AFTER his powers were mysteriously changed (originally they were limited to tactile use), as well as his daughter Lightning, and a few others. This one is a keeper by your logic.

CELESTIAL: Doesn't fit anyone in the comics that I can think of. It's neat. But, the powers aren't in the comics. They don't fit Raven (the daughter of a demon), Etrigan (a demon), Zauriel (an angel), Matrix/Supergirl (an earth-bound angel), or the Specter (the spirits of God's wrath). No one has these powers.


So, if we eliminate Haunting because it only fits 1-5 characters, we need to do the same with Fire, Earth, Ice, Celestial, and Quantum powers as well.

In other words: You're right - there aren't THAT many ghosts in the DC Universe. BUT, there are some, and this powerset applies to DCU as well or better than several of the others which have no true relationship to DC comics or even a stronger relationship to Marvel Comics than DC!


Ghostbusters... Maybe we need a Slimed power interaction??? LOL!

Forgot to mention yesterday that you need a debuff damage role and debuff defense interaction too.

Unstoppable: If the functionality you want can't be coded due to technical issues then a regular shield still benefits the powerset. I like two shields on my loadout for PVP.