Make the elite cards easier for PUG

At least in my experience, PUG is a term also applied to LFG in DCUO. It may not be the que system, but it’s still a hunt for random people not in your league or friends list.

I exclusively PUG everything. I run as a Healer. My son plays a Tank. We join together and then queue.

We have more failures than successes, but we have successfully completed every Elite in the game through this method. If I am in a group that is struggling with the raid, it's not the raid's fault. The failure can always be traced back to one or more members of the group not doing what they should be.

If you want to PUG an Elite raid, these are key pieces of advise you will need to know.

- Be prepared for wipes. You will have wipes. If you cannot handle wiping, then do not try to PUG it, because players will only learn once they directly see what is going wrong. And often, they will need to wipe multiple times before they figure it out.

- Be prepared to talk. After you wipe, you need to look in your combat log and see what went wrong. You need to talk to the group and plan what you are going to do differently. If you just run back in with the strategy "Do the exact same thing we were doing last time when we wiped", then you will probably be wiping again. Simple, common-sense planning like "Hey! You need to block when the Sea Beast slams. _____, ______, and ______ didn't block and that is what got them killed and then wiped the rest of us."

- Accountability isn't blame. Everybody makes mistakes; having somebody point out your mistakes does not mean they're picking on you. They are trying to teach you what you need to do differently. Likewise, if somebody else is making a clear mistake, trying to ignore it because you're afraid to point fingers or upset somebody, that is not going to help them to learn the fight. Most likely if they are making mistakes, it's because they don't know better. So help them to improve by actually telling them what to do different, and listen to the other players when they tell you what you need to do differently. Everybody needs to have thicker skin and not take things personal or drop out just because somebody mentions their mistakes.

- Sometimes, roster changes will be needed. Sadly, there are some players who will use the PUG queue who cannot or will not listen to the plan or do anything differently, no matter how many times they fail. Maybe they just don't speak your language and don't understand you. Maybe they don't have the chat box open because they're using voice, or maybe they have the voice chat muted and are only looking at the chat box. It doesn't matter why they're failing; it doesn't even mean that they are a bad player. But if they're failing to do something that is causing the entire group to wipe, and they cannot or will not change, then they will need to be replaced. If you're afraid to ask someone to leave or to employ a kick, then what you're going to find is that your good players who are doing right, those will be the ones who drop when they get frustrated by players who won't improve. And when your good players drop and get replaced by random draws, you're back to ground zero teaching a new player. Don't let 1 person be the reason why 7 other people have to fail and quit.

- You don't have to watch Youtube, but one way or another you do have to learn the raid. In most cases, you can spend 10 minutes watching a Youtube video, or you can spend 40 minutes teaching yourself through trial and error, making mistakes and having other players call you out for it. The mentality of players who refuse to watch a brief video to prepare is only fine if they're prepared to invest a far greater amount of time wiping while they learn the stuff that was in that video. But anyone who thinks that they should refuse to prepare for the raid in advance, and then also expect it to go smoothly the first time, they will find themselves sorely disappointed. So if you want it to run smooth, if you want it to work with fewer wipes, then put in the legwork, read the guides, watch the videos, and come into the raid with the basic knowledge you need to be successful.

- ASK QUESTIONS. "What did that Mark of Cain do?" "What was that that just killed us?" "How can I tell when Cthullhu is going to eat me?" "What does that Activate do and when should I use it?" If there's something happening that you don't understand, ask the group. Chances are at least one other person also doesn't know and is afraid to ask, and learning these things will help the group to be more successful.

- Have your character prepared. Don't queue as a role that you are unprepared to play. Have your mods in your gear. If you're a premium, have enough sellable clutter ready to make sure you can do your repairs. Elite Raids are going to be a challenge, especially if you're pug'ing it, so you need to show up ready to put in the work. Don't drop in expecting to just get carried through, because it will not happen.

You can tell that T100 player that I seriously doubt he is even remotely deserving of that valuation and that he is just a "PUG" and he's welcome to try and defend himself in-game with me. Fate is extremely easy for any group with any sort of communication and personal accountability. 100% that T100 player and his league just stand and let the ankh bombs hit them because they for whatever reason can't just move and avoid them, they will also 100% be not blocking on Fate's teleports, and they 100% will just be standing around in the middle getting hit by multiple pillars and ground sigils hoping their 2 healers bail them out so they don't have to move. Cause that is the only way to fail that Fate fight in FoAe, it's incredibly easy once the mechanics are learnt as there is no hidden surprises in that fight and even the Arcane Barrage when it was hitting for more intended damage could be called out and even avoided completely by any player wearing the manacles of force.

You have to have disastrous communication and have players with no personal awareness to have a 33% success chance BY FAR

LOL! Ahhhahaaa! When I saw the title to this thread my thoughts went to Magic The Gathering and I imagined that DC/WB/WoTC had a project going or something. *(WoTC=Wizards of The Coast)

Anyway, Pug Life = Thug Life.

These new raids require coordination, timing and mechanics and many players aren't used to playing that way. I've only played the new raids about 4 times myself, so I am still learning the ropes and I always PUG them as well. Pugging Elite raids gives a *special type of pain and suffering*, so you need three times the patience and troll resistance.

Isn't the creator of this thread the same guy who said he doesn't need more than 200sp or something? Now he wants elite nerfd. Of course you don't need 400+sp but I remember him arguing over some ridiculously low sp

Edit: it was actually less than 100sp

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/i-dont-like-this.296209/

That fight is not easy like you described, I found it even harder than Tala's fight where you only have to worry about the meteor which is bugged for some players, including me. I agree that as long as we follow the mechanic and have a good communication, those fights will be easy, I mean, it's too obvious . But but the new raids are kinda unbeatable with PUG (or LFG) even first boss, it's not like the previous DLC (TT with HIVE, Deluge with TTB, etc).

But it is as easy, and the raids you mentioned had the biggest joke 1st boss's out of any elite raids we've had in awhile, you couldn't even count Hive 1st boss as a boss as all you are doing is just killing adds for 4 or 5 min before you get loot and face an actual boss like Deathstroke and then Terra.

The reason your groups and that T100 player's groups struggle so much on Fate is because you are so used to elite raids where you just stand in 1 place the entire fight and don't have to move around or be aware of your surroundings. FB in Throne and Crown elite you are literally just standing all huddled up in 1 spot besides the tanks. Spindrift FB same thing, TTBE same thing, even the Machine except for a few encounters are largely in the same position. When a raid that comes out that makes you have to be accountable for your own positioning is where it truly "exposes" said T100 leagues and LFG groups just like ZOOE did with the Tornado's on 2nd boss before everyone gave up and went flight to fly above them.

Every role needs to constantly re-position and interrupt combos or rotations in order to move free of the pillars, fates attacks or the sigils. If you don't you are going to have the exact experience you've shared here.



If multiple groups can complete it on the first and second day wearing no gear from the current episode than LFG groups and T100 leagues in full vendor gear certainly don't have any excuses about it being too hard.

my only issue is many quit the elite and often cant get them done,nobody wants to suffer through until you can get better they want everything now with no fuss,qued 3 times with groups disbanding every time

No, I mean it's not easy, if not that hard for LFG groups, both raids, first boss (Tala+Fate), so you can't farm renown with LFG anymore... That's all I want to say about two new raids.....I got full renown already but that was because I ran with my league or the players I know, including those in your video. This DLC is not like past DLC where you have at least one raid to farm renown so people who is not in good league can get the elite gear too.

The reason I run with LFG groups is I want to get more experience and see how hard is it for the groups, and the answer I get is ...... We couldn't beat first boss and it's been a month . My friends do tell me that don't ask LFG for elite contents (I agree with that), but sometimes I want to give it a shot as well but ... 0% success rate at this moment .

Yeah, right.. No*.
Coincidently, you can die in a queue up pug 15 seconds into that raid. .. That's bad.. And, You pretend to be a simple PUG-player but, you are just afraid to admit that we have left queue up behind. Unlike you, I embrace it proudly. .. Yeah

That's remarkable, thx....

This thread is super funny

You should ask yourself who has the responsibility for not being able to farm renown on the first boss in a raid. Is it because the boss is too gosh darn hard for the average player to beat? Or because the average player decided to stay an average player instead of improving their own gameplay?
If it is really that hard to pay attention to what a boss does and what it means to the group, then either one can excercise until one gets it right, or one can stay in normal for two more episodes and return to fill up the renown.

Just because the average player wants to have the three extra marks plus the renown for elite gear right naow, does not mean that it is the right thing to do.
Heck, people needed to exploit the second boss in HIVEe because they couldn't get past it...that should tell you something about the mindset of people. If the devs then come up with a first boss that is hard, more power to them. It's not like the average pug had their chance when the devs broke the teleporter to the Dr. Fate fight...

The usual suspects are right back at it, I see. One of these days, some players might have to ask themselves if the time spent screaming "NERF NAOW!" on the forums couldn't be better spent actually bettering themselves and finding likeminded people to form up groups with, to actually get past the raids to get the precious renown and rewards they oh so need to have for reasons.

It's almost as if some people are not at all interested in the effort, but only in the rewards. Oh, wait....

Truth be told, there is a free to play option. Just pop in ten bucks every 3 to 5 months; come back and see the sights, and then go back to whatever other pursuit you’re spending your money on. I can do a lot of other things with $2000+ a year.

I mean, if gear don’t matter and op items don’t matter and artifacts don’t matter and augments don’t matter and SP don’t matter - why spend the money? It really is kind of stupid when you think about it.

You're acting as if the game's main income comes from people replaying the Elite-content, lol. In reality, this is just the attitude of the likes of a spoiled brat in the supermarket throwing a temper tantrum whenever the brat can't get whatever he or she wants, right then and there.


You're not going anywhere with those empty "no more money"-threats of yours. If you were, you wouldn't feel the need to swoop into every single one of these threads the very second they pop up just to tell the developers for the umpteenth time that THIS time you gosh darn will spend it elsewhere! Don't worry, you'll be max CR this episode too in a few weeks or a month or so, i'm sure about it.

I can't believe this has to be explained.
Elite: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/elite
By definition you should not be able to pick up random people and beat it.

If you get into pug groups that actually communicate and are willing to work together and have a plan, try this new youtuber i just found: Hawaii Legend Gaming, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxEe8_viofKthYTnlUNaL6g . He has posted the most informative and helpful boss mechanics of the two elite raids that i have EVER seen. Unlike other youtubers that post raids just to boast of 15 min runs or 4 man runs, or even talking about the boss fights, this guy shows you the boss' action to tell you which attack is coming, what to expect from that attack, and if there's a pattern to the boss attacks. He even has placements and strategies of boss fights. I suggest if you find it useful, to subscribe and support this gamer to keep him making these videos with the same effort.

Tala only hits the closest and farthest person with meteors, so only the tank and troll or healer should see those. The troll or healer just needs to stay behind the rest of the group. It's super easy with a good group, but impossible if you let meteors hit everyone and don't lunge Tala's self heal. I also got yelled at in an LFG group for suggesting we leave the madness meter high to increase the burn. I see lots of people dying from madness ticks between boss fights, so I feel like they don't have even 1 level 23 JLD augment. SGE is much faster if you can keep the madness high with 2 level 23 JLD augments.
I haven't been lucky enough to find a group to beat Arcane elite yet. It's pretty much as ObsidianChill described, people standing around waiting to die from a Fate teleport or not moving fast enough out of damage. I have been in a few groups that got Fate below 5% and even to the last sliver of health, but every time people waste deaths standing around when collecting the books, so they are out on the 2nd KO when we start burning Fate. I've had multiple groups suggest everyone just put on their support gear until the books are collected, but of course there are 3-4 people with DPS gear only.