Why ps4 players receive loyalty point and pc players Daybreak Cash from the subscription? And especially, why the price are different, in particular the price for ps4 players are higher than pc players? I don't think this is right, we play on the same server, and ps4 players are disantvantaged.
Most likely this is a limitation of the Playstation itself and how Sony manages it's content. My guess would be a fee that daybreak has to pay to Sony on purchases that go through it's store (which is how you get MC) so giving away 500 MC a month would mean a lot of fees that would impact the cost of the membership. Rather than raising membership cost on the console they opted to find a unique way around the issue by creating a completely new ingame credit and store to bypass the online market. Now...considering that the only users that will have loyalty points are those with memberships (or that had memberships at one time) why they opted to list the items at full price and not the 10% off price...that I can't explain.
I believe it's because on playstation Sony control the marketplace as opposed to daybreak directly. It's certainly too do with Sony.
The difference between loyalty points and Daybreak Cash rewards for membership goes back to when that membership benefit was first introduced. At the time, everything on the PS marketplace used the PSN wallet (so a power respec token was a $10 PSN transaction opposed to 1000 marketplace cash as it is today). It was not technically possible to add $5 to members' PSN wallets every month so Loyalty points were created instead. Here's the article when this benefit was added https://www.dcuniverseonline.com/news/imported-dcuo-enus-101 Here's the FAQ about the change from using the PSN wallet to using marketplace cash https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/faq-ps3-4-marketplace-cash.178065/ I'm not sure what you mean about a price difference (unless you are referring to the fact that the Loyalty vendor doesn't apply the member discount while the marketplace does). Membership prices and the purchase of daybreak/marketplace cash cost the same regardless of platform. I suppose there is an issue in some regions where one platform may have been updated to reflect current exchange rates and another platform might not have been updated yet. I'm not sure why Loyalty points are still a thing now that consoles have marketplace cash. The loyalty vendor is often missing items from the marketplace, even brand new items. All it would really take is a conversion in a game update, 1 loyalty point changes to 1 marketplace cash, and future membership bonuses give marketplace cash instead. Marketplace cash is an in game currency stored on the Daybreak servers, so the console owners (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) don't loose out on anything if Daybreak changes this number. Any reasonably profit sharing between Daybreak and the console owners would be from the handful of marketplace items that still use the console wallet (membership, marketplace cash purchases, etc). So, once you purchase marketplace cash, the console owner got their cut and wouldn't care what you (or Daybreak) do with the "in game item". I've been wanting this changed for a few years. Now that I found those two posts, I'm going to link this post in my signature for easy reference in the future.
Hmm... Since Loyalty Points are connected to memberships, it would not be possible to convert Loyalty Points into Daybreak Cash without Sony agreeing to allowing Daybreak more access to their consoles than it does now. Remember, console subscriptions are linked to the accounts of the console owners and Daybreak would need access to that to be able to convert those loyalty points to Daybreak Cash. I highly doubt Sony is going to allow that to happen anytime soon. The main purpose of changing from Station Cash to Marketplace Cash was to ensure that Sony had a better oversight on in-game purchases and to avoid another major hack. If Station Cash was set up like Marketplace Cash is currently, there would have been no need to change it.
Loyalty points are also an in game currency, the existence/use/modification of which Sony (and other console owners) has no stake in what so ever. Sony (et al) get a cut of your membership purchase, they do not care what percs the game gives along with said membership. Your argument is like saying that Daybreak needed Sony's permission to convert the JLD currency to Source Marks (which they didn't), and that somehow that would require "more access" to the console (which it didn't). All of your game information (outside of some customization options, for menus/voice volumes/chat colors) is stored on Daybreak's servers, not on anything the Playstation network owns or even has access to. The Daybreak servers see that you are logged into your PSN account and show you the appropriate information. This would just be a change to membership percs (like the addition of this bonus to begin with) that Sony would NOT have to vet or approve, or even care about. This would not be a change to membership cost, so as far as Sony is concerned it would be like nothing happened at all. Do you play any mobile games? Do you manually log into them, or use your google or apple account? Pokemon Go (for example) lets you log in with your google account, and you can buy coins which are used to buy things off their marketplace. The app store (google/apple/3rd party) gets a cut of your coin purchase, but you can get coins in game as well. The app store does NOT get a cut when you spend the coins, because they have no stake in those other coins you earned. In this example, your Google account is the PSN account, coins are marketplace cash, and the equivalent of earning coins in game is the membership benefit. The ONLY reason Loyalty Points exist is because they couldn't add money to your PSN wallet, no other reason. In all likely hood, if the marketplace existed in its current state back in 2012 when this benefit was added, Loyalty Points wouldn't have been created. I suggest you go back and read the first article I linked, especially this part: I'm not sure what you are talking about when you reference changing from Station Cash to Marketplace Cash. Consoles used the PSN wallet for all purchases prior to the introduction of Marketplace Cash. PC used Station Cash when the studio was called SOE (Sony Online Entertainment, I believe the broader marketplace shared by all SOE PC games was called Sony Station), then switched the name to Daybreak Cash when Sony sold the studio and the studio was renamed Daybreak Games. You may want to refresh yourself on why the change from PSN purchases to marketplace happened, which is in the second article I posted. Specifically this part: This had nothing to do with Sony demanding better oversight. This was to distance Sony from the game's marketplace so that the Devs weren't dependent on Sony pushing an update to the PSN store to make changes to what was available on the marketplace and how much it cost, as stated by the Devs themselves. Here's a short step by step of what happens when you make a purchase from the PSN store for membership, marketplace cash, or the other handful of purchases that use the PSN wallet. You select an item and confirm the purchase PSN sends information on what you bought to the Daybreak server (notice, you leave the game and go into a PSN store screen when you make these purchases) The Daybreak server recognizes the purchase and gives you what you purchased Somewhere a log is updated showing that Sony owes Daybreak some fraction of the purchase price At some point Sony gives Daybreak their share of all purchases made within a given time frame As for either a non PSN wallet purchase from the marketplace (meaning you use marketplace cash), a purchase on the loyalty vendor, or any vendor really You select an item and confirm the purchase The Daybreak server updates your currency amount to remove the cost of the item The Daybreak server gives you access to the item you purchased Sony (et al) are not involved in those transactions at all. So saying that they get a cut off of marketplace cash or loyalty point purchases would basically mean you are also saying that Daybreak owes them for every Source Mark, episode mark, seasonal mark, pvp mark, or any other purchase that happens in game (even using plain old in game cash to repair your gear). I mean, I guess it would be possible for someone to make a business arrangement like that, but that would possibly be the worst business decision anyone has ever made.
I thought of a good comparison using only the PC. On PC, you have the option of launching the game directly or through Steam. If you play through Steam, you use your Steam wallet for membership, to purchase Daybreak cash, etc. When you purchase a membership, your monthly currency is (... drum roll, please...) Daybreak Cash. That's right, PC has an ecosystem similar to consoles, and it doesn't use loyalty points.
Yep...that's the difference. PC players get 500 DBC each month. They can use that 500 DBC to buy a SOC and have 50 left over. PS (and maybe Xbox/Switch...don't know for sure if they get DBC or loyalty) players get 500 Loyalty points, buy a SOC and have 0 left over. Nice reward for our 'loyalty'.
What is this "SOC" you're referring to? And yes, the 10% Marketplace Discount is a Membership Benefit for PC players. Remember, playing on PC gives you an All Access Membership that applies to ALL Daybreak Games MMORPG titles, not just DCUO. So, if you want to go play Evercrack 2 or Planetside, you already have a Membership for those games, as well! This is, of course, completely different to how things work on the consoles. The flip side is that Console Players on PS4 and Xbox One have the High Texture Detail turned ON, while PC players have to live with Normal Texture Detail because the Devs disabled the High setting due to a glitch, and have never fixed the glitch! So you actually see better, more detailed textures on your character if you're playing on console!
Consoles protect your account information (from us) and have their own purchase rules. Both prevent us from being able to implement exactly the same system vs. what we prefer and do on PC, but what we have implemented is very nearly the same.
SOC=Seal of Completion. I used that as it's exactly 500 loyalty...same as the grant each month. You seem to be missing the point too. If I go to the MP and spend MPC I buy with cash, the SOC is 450 due to my 10% member discount...which PS and PC players both get. If I use the 500 Loyaty points at the loyalty vendor I do NOT get the discount. As PC players get DBC directly(equal to PS MPC), a loyalty vendor is not required, so you get the discount as well. All-access has nothing to do with it...I'm perfectly fine with the PC players getting access to the other games...I have no interest in those. I wasn't trying to do a PC/PS comparison and I don't really think game platform related issues should factor into pricing and set rewards. If you were going to do that and loop in the other platforms, Switch players should be getting 10 stabilizers a day to compensate for the low pop in a game they pay for but can barely use(not enough users). Or PS players should get extra rewards every time the game crashes when fleeing, warping to rally or a new zone(which happens a LOT)...which PC does not have to deal with. Not saying these things should happen...just saying it's the same as your low texture reasoning. The loyalty vendor, which only deals with loyalty points....which can only be accumulated by being a member....should reflect the same 10% discount as the MP. Otherwise It's like we get 450 loyalty each month of sub which is NOT what is advertised.
So why no 10% discount at the loyalty vendor? That's all in-game and has nothing to do with Sony or my personal information. DI grants 500 Loyalty and maintains the vendor machine....just apply the discount to the numbers, or update the prices to default 10% less as there is no possible way to get loyalty points except being a member.
The 10% discount on the marketplace is for all members, not just PC members. The difference between members is that on PC, your monthly money is the same currency that you used to buy things from the marketplace, while on consoles you are given loyalty points that can only be used on a specific vendor. In all honesty, I don't think there would be as much of an issue with the loyalty point system if The 10% discount applied on the loyalty point vendor All current marketplace items were on the loyalty point vendor Updates to the marketplace and loyalty vendor took place at the same time The first point gets back to an issue of when the vendor was implemented. They might not have had the ability to give members a discount on an in game vendor at the time. However, since then they have proven it's possible with the Quark vendors. So they could go update the code for the vendor to include the discount as long as your membership is still active. They're also Alan that they can change the prices on the loyalty vendor by including some recent sales there (again, still without the members discount though). The other two are more of an oversight issue. Things apparently have to be manually added to the loyalty vendor, and sometimes things get missed. Sometimes they correct the issue right away, other times it can be months, in others it might not be corrected even after more than a year (last I checked, the augment xp packs that were added to the marketplace in March 2019 were still missing from the loyalty vendor, and it has been brought up a few times). Even if those issues were resolved, it still wouldn't be a perfect solution. As Reinheld said, a seal of completion would cost 450 loyalty points, so you'd be left with 50. You couldn't do anything with that 50 until you got your next set of loyalty points, where a PC player could add some Daybreak cash and essentially get an "extra" discount on something else. Really, switching loyalty points to marketplace cash would save the devs time in the long run. It would be one less item they have to continually maintain.
What exactly is the difference between marketplace cash and daybreak cash, outside of a name. Both are in game currencies that you buy from an external source (PSN, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, or directly from Daybreak). The Stream example on PC is no difference from the console situation, yet they get Daybreak cash instead of loyalty points. At one point (back before the PS4), there was a technical issue with giving the bonus in the same/similar manner (since PSN isn't set up for that kind of transaction) and a business issue (you would want that money used in your game, not to purchase other games from PSN). At this point though, that issue no longer exists. The game's marketplace is insulated/separate from the console store. If the console owners have a say in how you handle marketplace cash in game, where does it stop? Since you can use marketplace cash to buy source marks, do they have a say on how source marks are used in game?
Well, Consoles only have a say on how to handle real money game currency purchases on THEIR end, not the PC end. Source Marks are used for in-game items only, so consoles have no say on how the game uses Source Marks. They DO have a say on HOW those Source Marks are purchased, which is why console players still have to use Marketplace Cash instead of Daybreak Cash. The difference between Marketplace Cash and the Daybreak Cash is access. Daybreak Cash is for the PC; Marketplace Cash is for the Playstation, Xbox and Switch. As I have said earlier in this post, Sony (for example) is not going to allow Daybreak to have enough access to player's accounts to change Marketplace Cash into Daybreak Cash. Steam can be accessed from a computer and the Steam Machine, so that platform does have the PC advantage of using Daybreak Cash; consoles do not have that type of access. If players had to solely create their accounts on the PC side and cross-play was available (Like Final Fantasy Online) then this issue would not exist, as Daybreak could make Daybreak Cash active across all platforms.
Exactly, Consoles handle REAL MONEY PURCHASES, nothing more nothing less. Once you buy marketplace cash, any transaction that uses marketplace cash is no longer a REAL MONEY PURCHASE. Just like how Steam handles the REAL MONEY PURCHASE on their end, and Daybreak cash is used independently out of their purview. The Console owners actually do not have any say on Source Marks what so ever. They may not even be aware that Source Marks can be purchased with Marketplace cash, because (guess what) they don't care what you do with the marketplace cash once you buy it. That falls squarely in the responsibility and control of Daybreak. I'm not sure why you are saying Source Marks have anything to do with why the marketplace currency has a given name. Those are completely unrelated things, and the terms Marketplace Cash and Daybreak Cash existed LONG before Source Marks were even a thing in game. Once AGAIN, Marketplace Cash and Daybreak Cash are functionally the EXACT SAME THING with different names (one for Consoles and the other for PC). No one is asking for Daybreak to change the name of the currency used in the marketplace on Consoles (though there really isn't a reason that they need to have different names). We are asking for the monthly marketplace stipend to be treated the same as it is on PC. Currently consoles get LOYALTY POINTS for this (see previous points on why this system is worse), we are asking for MARKETPLACE CASH INSTEAD.
If you didn't notice, I've asked Mepps for clarification on his statement. Yes, the console handles the mechanics of purchasing Marketplace Cash, but they do NOT handle anything to do with the use of the Marketplace cash. You can check this for yourself. When you purchase Marketplace Cash, you temporarily exit the game to complete the transaction with your Console wallet. When you purchase something WITH Marketplace cash, you do NOT exit the game as all information related to the purchase resides within Daybreak's servers. It is very possible that this issue hasn't really been investigated since before the introduction of Marketplace cash. Back when the PS marketplace used the PSN wallet for everything, their hands were tied, but circumstances have changed since then. I think you completely missed the point there. Consoles don't care what you use the Marketplace cash for. They have no oversight or control over an in game economy. Once you have paid for Marketplace cash, its use is governed by the terms of service of the game. The consoles do not care that you can buy Source Marks, because that is done with a currency other than real world money. Your account's current amount of Marketplace Cash is stored on Daybreak's servers, not the Console's servers. Daybreak can access and modify any information on their servers without needing the Consoles to agree to it, so they don't need ANY access to your Console account to do anything with Marketplace cash (or Loyalty Points, or adding the membership discount to the Loyalty Vendor which would at least be a step in the right direction). Back before Marketplace cash, Daybreak would have needed access to your console account to add money to your Console wallet (because the value of cash in your Console wallet is not stored on Daybreak's servers, it is stored on Console servers). But as mentioned MANY times, that is not the case anymore. I'm not sure what your concern is about a hack. Changing from giving console members Loyalty Points to giving them Marketplace Cash instead (and converting any remaining Loyalty Points to Marketplace cash during game down time like a game update) does not introduce any new avenues in which a hack could occur. A hack could happen on the Console side or on the DCUO side in the exact same manner regardless of this request. There is no new/different/removed exchange of information between the Console servers and Daybreak's servers with this request.
You guys are both pretty far off track though now. The topic was DBC vs Loyalty points which are the 2 currencies given for the 500 grant each month....Stealth is correct that MPC is about the same as DBC except on how it's earned. Wheras MPC can only be purchased, DBC can be purchased OR is the grant. So again, why is the PS/XBOX/Switch monthly 500 grant NOT MPC because there IS a difference between MPC/DBC and Loyalty points. Loyalty points do NOT get the 10% discount entitled to members and again, the only way to get loyalty points is to BE a member, so it's counter-intuative. Also Loyalty points cannot be augmented with purchases as DBC/MPC can be, so if you need something for 500, and have 499, you are stuck not being able to purchase said item with loyalty for a month. The only thing that IS the same with Loyalty and MPC (the 2 Sony/Xbox/Switch currencies) is that they are both in game currencies, meaning they should be able to be outside of Sony's say so as if given as a grant no charge/personal info should be required. Just drop in 500 MPC each month....done. Now...maybe that's not possible, but if it is, let's do it and end the disparity.
