This lunge window is ridiculous, this has been apparent for months and still devs haven't done anything about it. Rather then actually timing your attack, only way to effectively counter is to finish your combo so that the last hit puts them down (by hope). The window is too small to accurately apply a lunge. Not to sure if im the only one seeing this ...
What weapon are you using? When you respond are you watching the icon or the animation? What weapon are you having the most difficulty?
For me as a Staff user i got very slow Lunge animation.... But other weps can Lunge much faster like MA, DW, 1h m.m !
MA appears fast, but since the changes to interrupt windows with addition of counter icons the actual impact is really late and people can even block after your foot already hits the ground and still counter. Fast lunges are Shield, Rifle, 1H, Bow, DW, etc (imo fastest to slowest of the "fast.") When I say fastest I don't mean in duration of animation, but the point at which the counter interaction begins. Staff can be good if you just do a hold attack in place of a lunge and then go back to your combos. The biggest problem I see with staff is that it seems to get "stuck" in hold attacks even when you tap at times.
Yeah Staff get stuck for a sec when you lunges dunno why!! Its very seldom i manage to make a succesful Lunge with staff! But Staff makes up for it with 1 of the best BB in the game instead... With DW i can do it much easyer....
Mostly I use MA or Staff in arenas But I've also been running legends lately and in particular brawler users seem to be using the same rotations of clipping block breaker with a power on a continual basis, if I then lunge they block or I'll completely miss the window. There's also a problem with Bane and Superman using a block breaker and their ground smash power, because it sends you flying back without being able to counter them for the BB. These type of circumstances make the game unplayable for me, I've always been able to "punish" my opponents for their spamming but the timing is almost impossible to comprehend.
Lol I'm sharing the exact same experiances. Ive taught myself to not even use lunge at all nowadays, it's such a broken mechanic it's almost at disadvantage against a skilled opponent. And I understand what you mean with the staff, IMO they should make all the staff shuffling moves a hold button. I think the first two interactions are holds, but the third interaction and onwards are single taps, I'm not too sure.
Legends characters have all sorts of little things that mess with the counter times. IE-any character that has a back flip attack can clip their BB with it and because of the 3 sec power interaction can throw them and never worry about an interrupt unless you know exactly what the WILL do and lunge before they clip. John Stewart's mortar clipped with the Home Run swing does a knock back and knock up so you have to break out twice before you can counter. Also he can totally hide his barrel roll making him one of the harder characters to read. Typically the icons are gone before you can even respond so it takes learning a players habits and knowing the "typical" clips to counter some characters. Things like these frustrate me most about Legends because so many powers can completely hide every counter that it comes down to who has the better rotation and not who understands counter mechanics better.
Sorry but I completely disagree with this, it is still easy enough to understand when someone uses a BB/lunge and even to counter it you just have to use more than your eyes (sound is important) as well as learn how they play. It is a lot harder nowadays to counter BBs due to the smaller windows combined with CC effects and with immunities being given even when someone has immunity themselves can make counters a bit out of wack at the moment. Saying this, it is still possible and comes down to being able to break out fast and lunge ASAP. Back to what I was saying originally however, saying that knowledge of better rotations are more important than knowledge of counter mechanics just isn't correct. If it was I wouldn't be as good as I am in legends considering 90% of my playstyle is all about utilising the counter mechanics.
But that is just it I do play with my ears and the timing since visuals were added to countering has been off. Maybe only by a fraction of a second but it is noticeable enough when I counter. Blocking for example, can now be down after someone lunges with many weapons for a counter but then other weapons do not get countered. Personally I think the system is trying to match the counters to the visuals and everything just feels a bit off--like watching a movie and the sound is slightly delayed.
It isn't just the visuals it is the time the dmg actually lands. This is why some weapons are off when it comes to landing that counter or not. It never used to be that way on weapons that had a travel time to get to the target. That included lunges and BB. Counters used to counter at the start of the animation even if you were far from the player. Now that it requires you to hit the target with dmg it leaves a massive window of opportunity for the player to not be vul to the counter depending on the distance you are from the player. When they changed the counters to counter on dmg and not on animations it broke a few weapons to the point of if you are not guessing when someone is about to block or use an interupt you will miss the counter window AND the player you are hitting will have enough reaction time to counter you. I don't remember if Yziah recorded it but we did some testing a while back at max lunge distance. I had shield on and just doing the first shield throw he couldn't counter me with MA unless he was lunging me before i threw the shield because my vul window was closed by the time he reached me and did the flp animation because the dmg from MA lunge doesn't take place until the flip is completely finished. If he shortened the distance between us he could then land a counter with MA but just barely. Doing the same testing with him using DW he would nail me everytime and counter me because the animation is much faster. Some BB have the same problems. This was never an issue when it used to counter upon activation rather then on dmg and it allowed you to be any distance and still land counters. The handblaster lunge has probably the worst time with this change due to the hang time it has before it actually does dmg. Bow suffers the same problem only in reverse, it used to BB right at the start of the long draw animation now it doesn't BB until the arrow reaches the target, it is basicly useless unless absolutely NO ONE is paying attention to you. It really is sad because most if not all weapons were very viable in pvp when the game first came out and now not so much. Edit: Side note is that we did have BB that countered on hit and not on the start of the animations but those were only the charged up BB that did more dmg the longer you held it. HB, 1hand, staff, and DW all required the animation to hit for them to counter or else they would of been unfair counters.
Thank you Spider, that is what I was trying to say but in a better more detailed format. I did record our tests but deleted them after the update went live. Didn't think I would want to undelete anything so bad. Those tests we ran made it pretty clear how things were "adjusted.". I wanted to compile something at that time but RL took over and I missed my opportunity.
I actually believe those should be fixed. One handed had it's lunge speed reduced to be brought in line with others and its movement skipping but shield weapons can do the EXACT same thing currently. Rifle lunges are so fast it makes more sense to spam that than to actually use the weapons combos. Most decent legends players that use either John Stewart or Two Face play this way by farming immunity. Those weapons' ability to rapidly lunge should be slowed down or have the others sped up.
It isn't just about the lunges though. Some weapons are wacked on the BB front too. Not only is there animation differences but travel time is a major factor now because counters don't happen until dmg is dealt. If it takes me from max distance a total time of 3secs from response time to landing ontop of the player that was vul to interrupt, then they will have enough time for that window to end and Block if they see it coming and the lunger will get countered. I know the old ways had issues of its own to deal with and is probably why it was changed to on hit instead of on activation but you can't change something like that without fixing animation/travel times on all weapons to make sure they are on par with one another or else you create a situation where some weapons just have major problems when it comes to countering players. And players who use these weapons get the short end of the stick and either have to use a different weapon or play like a turtle and not use the weapons weakness. I think after they do the nature/sorc revamps they need to seriously sit down and look at weapons and try to give them some sort of semi balance. It is long over due.
It gets worse. If a bunch of people are blocking your way to the guy, nine out of ten won't end up interrupting him because you'll never reach him. I have an additional problem. My USPC server ping is 450 on average. My counters are always perfectly timed, and yet somehow I always end up getting countered myself. I couldn't understand why I am so experienced at pvp but seem to suck so badly until I logged on to EUPC, where my ping is 130, and finally I could see how good I really was. While the validation of my uber skills felt good, it annoys me that the problem ended up being one thatdis out of my hands
I actually remember seeing that video and it first alerted me to the problem. I assumed it would be hotfixed but clearly not the case. I haven't played for almost two months and come back to see the exact problem. From feedback it looks like its scaled down to unbalanced weapons..... Seems this counter upon receiving damage was also a terrible implementation.
