GU50, Tunso Testing, and Player Testing

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Sore, Jul 16, 2015.

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  1. Fies Committed Player

    As expected :) thx anyways
  2. farm3rb0b Committed Player

    Everything matched. When I say I tested in 126 gear, I mean every item I had on was of 126 item level. When I say I tested in 116 gear, I mean every item I had on was of 116 item level.

    Let me clarify the scaling issue I saw. In 126 gear, if I'm doing 30k dps on a melee rotation and I'm doing 20k dps on a range rotation, then the range rotation does 2/3 the damage of the melee rotation. You would expect this same scalar (2/3 melee = range) no matter what CR you are. It fluctuates enough when your CR changes, or when you add mods, that it throws off the balance. The nice 66% you see in a Tunso Test may turn into 70+% or 60% at a different CR or with mods.

    I also see a discrepancy when I add mods. That, though, may have to do with the damage function. When I add mods at 116...they make a bigger impact on my damage out then when I add mods at 126. I didn't test lower than 116...but you would think the trend would continue...they'd make an even bigger difference at CR 100 and more at 90 and more at.... At the same time, they'd make less of a difference with a higher CR.

    Keep in mind, I've only been testing Light, and I'm modding heavy Precision. So, that could mean Precision is scaling funky. There're so many things that go into the damage function...that this is a difficult problem to try to make an impact on.
  3. Remander Steadfast Player

    As to the modding, what percentage gain in stats are you seeing in each case? That could explain the scaling. I think they've been backing off the mods in terms of percentage stat gain.
    • Like x 1
  4. QuagmirePrime Well-Known Player

    The Tunso Test is more-or-less the fixed baseline. As you change CR and mods, the scale is going to be different. And perhaps the devs don't intend for range to be a fixed percentage of melee damage. To me, that shows scaling from the Tunso Test is not going to represent typical play conditions.

    I think that as stats increase, the percentage difference in damage between two powers (with other factors consistent) should remain the same. Perhaps the numbers experts can look at this a bit more?

    If the power sets can be balanced based on typical play conditions, I think the +/- 5% tolerance for damage at each range is reasonable. And if mid-range potential is created, that gives each power set the possibility to excel at one range more than at the other ranges. I wouldn't want all the power sets to behave the same way, with only different animations. So maybe Celestial could still be the best damage dealer at range but possibly the worst at less than 7 m. Even then, its melee damage should be higher than its range damage. I'm not sure how the coding works, but detection obviously exists for "in-range" and "out-of-range." With effort, wouldn't it be possible to add a range dependent damage scalar for 0-7 m, 7-12.5 m, and 12.5-25 m?
  5. Greenman_x Steadfast Player

    The test for Mental looks a little low. I have a hard time believing that all of those powersets outshine Mental in Melee range and I think I know why. When you use Menace, it sends the sparring targets in a frenzy and out of range of a lot of attacks. I only mention this because Mental got a buff and I couldn't figure out why until now.

    If someone else tests mental, make sure you have a controller or tank there to keep the adds grouped.
    • Like x 1
  6. MetalMario Loyal Player

    Perhaps he mean that vulnerable to interrupt is not as dangerous or risky as vulnerable to block. You can avoid the former almost entirely by positioning, while you can only avoid the latter by stopping entirely. It is not balanced to give such statuses equal damage potential.
  7. Remander Steadfast Player

    Today's hotfix:

    o Mental
     Increased the damage caused by Mass Terror and Mass Levitation when at maximum Resonance.

    It's hitting really strong now.
  8. Remander Steadfast Player

    I thought that's what I was saying. ;)

    Actually, it was in a different post in a different thread:
  9. Greenman_x Steadfast Player

    I would imagine it would. I'd bet that the only powers that beat it on live are Ice and Gadgets and MAYBE Fire. I imagine that whoever tested Mental for this thread didn't take into account how much the sparring targets run around when you use menace, to the point where half of your attacks are only hitting maybe 4 or 5 of them at a time.

    Mental needs a buddy system in order to test properly.
    • Like x 1
  10. Sore Steadfast Player

    Unless there's a known bug (which exists on occasion) the attacks should be splitting after 2 anyway. In theory, hitting 3 targets should be the same as hitting 4-5 targets as hitting 8 targets. The 8 targets are mostly overkill for safety sake. I'm certain I'm not hitting all 8 targets with every ability in my Nature tests.
    • Like x 3
  11. Sore Steadfast Player


    PC Test Updates (Need New Numbers)
    > Rage Melee (Tunso Test + Live Test)
    > Mental Melee (Tunso Test + Live Test)
    > Mental Range (Tunso Test + Live Test)

    I will accept just Tunso Tests if you don't have a toon up to 160 SP on PC Test or if you have limited time. But if we can do both, it'd be most valuable. As I mentioned on Page 13, you could see the Rage nerf coming. It's now a matter of measuring whether the scaling caused collateral damage or not.
  12. Remander Steadfast Player

    Only potential advantage is more hits giving more opportunities to crit, but I suspect that'd average out over time.
  13. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Actually, there is a bug with Menace that causes it to do like 10 damage when used at melee range. Not sure if they ever fixed it but if whoever tested Mental used Menace it may have skewed results. More about the bug here:

    Similar bug with Quantum (again not sure if they ever fixed it):
    • Like x 1
  14. Sore Steadfast Player

    I assume it should because you're now critting on a split number. So the magnitude is applying to a smaller number.
    • Like x 2
  15. Sore Steadfast Player

    Mental Testing

    The bump up is noticeable. Both hit 106% of baseline on Tunso Tests.
    Melee Testing


    Range Testing





    Mental gets a minor tweak to put within 95%-105%. We don't have Live Tests yet but Mental has historically scaled normally (maybe scaled a little high for range). I suspect better Tunso Test results may lead to better scaling in some circumstances. So the Live Tests may push over 106%.


    PC Test Updates (Need New Numbers)
    > Rage Melee (Tunso Test + Live Test)
    > Mental Melee (Tunso Test + Live Test)
    > Mental Range (Tunso Test + Live Test)
  16. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    Would be curious to know the loadout to help rule out any inconsistencies there as I would likely test using Pyrokinesis.
  17. WildcatHunter Committed Player

    quick ? here and not trying to be combative at all its just im in a hospital room with my dad as i have been for most of the past 7 weeks and im not getting to play and test like i want to. we are seeing some balance among the "tunso test". how is that playing out in the real game where people play most of the time? like for instance can an identical geared icevsnature repeat the results of the test that sore did on the first page? If not whats the reasoning behind balancing things based on these test? Since you cannot hear my voice is ask this sincerely.
  18. Greenman_x Steadfast Player

    Resonance - Phantom Flames - Shock - Bolt - Mass Terror - Menace

    Mass Terror clipped with Menace clipped with resonance > Flames > Shock > Bolt > Mass Terror. Go through with the regular rotation and clip MT with menace when Menace is off cooldown.
    • Like x 1
  19. Sore Steadfast Player

    I welcome multiple loadouts / rotations and let the best results be verified and win.

    The results listed above were with these loadouts:

    Melee: Psychic Resonance, Phantom Flames, Telekinetic Push, Telekinetic Bolt, Mass Terror
    Range: Psychic Resonance, Phantom Flames, Telekinetic Push, Telekinetic Bolt, Mass Levitation
  20. Absolix Loyal Player

    Add Menace to the first loadout using what Greenman already described, and add Pyrokinesis to the second loadout start with Mass Lev > Pyro/Psychic Resonance and use Pyro after every 3 rotations.
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