Tunso : While changes are being made, can one important change be made to the staff hold attack? It's still the only weapon attack that can just totally wiff and miss entirely, because it shoots a slow moving projectile which is dodge-able. To bring weapon attacks to parity, I firmly believe that no attacks should be able to just miss their target completely. The animation of the attack shouldn't be a determining factor if it does damage at all.
Tunso, I know you are fixing the 2H and Brawling animations to make them faster, so that means the damage is being lowered as well, right? Brawling and 2H damage is much slower and hits way harder than any other hold currently. I also want to point that Hand Blasters Solar Flame and Meteor Blast both hit way too hard for a combo executed so quickly. Nothing even comes close, except for rages dreadful blast, which hits like 3x harder than any other 45% damage move, which should also be looked into as well. Please look into these issues as well. Thank you. The video above does a fine job of demonstrating exactly what I am talking about in regards to weapon combos.
Wait, weren't you an advocate of range weapons hitting harder? Why would you include Solar Flame? It's a combo for a range weapon. Though it will be the next big thing, you shouldn't go back on what you were asking for back when 1h and staff got it's first adjustment.
Honestly, looking at it now, the long draw animation and damage from it are perfectly fine. If you sped it up, you would most likely lower the damage. Myself and a few others are looking forward to bow being useful again, as it was nerfed a few years back thanks to clowns abusing it and it hasn't been viable for quite some time now. In my opinion, minor tweak or just leave it as it is now as its just fine. Thank you.
I do believe range should hit harder than melee from range, I just do not believe the damage solar flame does in such a short amount of time should be that high. Scissor Kick I could see putting out that kind of damage because of how far into the tree it is, but not solar flame. Remember the devs said the longer the combo the more damage it yields, this is clearly out of balance.
Not really, if you look at the cost for it in skill points. Which require you to have 3. What you are referencing is when 1h's Spin Chop got it's greatly needed adjustment. It cost only 2 SP and it was a 2 tap hold. At T4 level, you could hit everything in front of you, without splitting mind you, for upwards of 4k. For the precision level, Solar Flame's attack splits and it's damage is about the same as spin chops current state, which doesn't split. What should be done is the higher up combos do more damage overall. Mega Smash has a massively long charge up and can hit for like 1.2k with 1400 precision. While Big Scoop can get that at an average. They need to make you want to have the higher purchased combos, not make you not want to use the weapon at all.
I disagree, because solar flame can be performed faster than spin chop, almost 2x faster, and it also hits everything in front of it. It is out of balance in terms of the time it takes to perform and the damage it puts out. I agree with you on mega smash, but that is providing they dont remove that cast bar from mega smash when they rebalanced the weapons.
Hold > Tap 2tap > Hold Hardly 2x faster. If you go by clicks themselves, 1/3rd faster. But Spin Chop can be clipped the instant you do it, same with Solar Flame. So it comes down to the time it does to do 2taps or one hold. Which is the same and only limited by your own dexterity. Which is why people flocked to 1h in the first place. Also, that spin chop adjustment last year was a speed up in animation. So it is faster anyways. The only problem between these weapons, which I'm surprised you didn't point out, you are not in danger with HB, as you are ranged. That is the only advantage you have over spin chop and other melee damage,.
I'm going to have to disagree here. From my own numbers, Staff's ranged damage is taking a massive hit. With around 900 less Precision on Live my Tank build averaged only 7 pts of damage less than my Test DPS build without Crits and only 64 pts less with crits. There's no way a Tank build should have such comparable damage with a DPS build, especially when the DPS has over 900 more Precision as well as a much higher crit to-hit and damage percentage.
Have you accounted for the increased speed? Shiny's actual DPS numbers don't show a nerf, just a speed increase.
That's a good question. From looking at his post it looks like he's saying that there is a .25 (or 20%) increase in speed from SC to Hold. This means damage on Test should be about 20% less than on Live. Test Tank: Average (w/o crits): 226.05 Average (with crits) 234.28 Live Tank: Average (w/o crits): 300.1 Average (with crits): 310.38 Difference: Average (w/o crits): ~25% decrease from Live to Test even though on Live my character has 100 less Precision than my Test Tank Average (with crits): Same as w/o crits Test DPS: Average (w/o crits): 307.65 Average (with crits): 374.71 Average Crit: 710 Live DPS: Average (w/o crits): 439.55 Average (with crits): 698.42 Average Crit: 1078.64 Difference: Average (w/o crits): ~20% decrease, considering the difference in Precision this is in line Average (with crits): ~50% decrease, this is a biiiig drop and is due to the number of and severity of the Crits Average Crit: ~30% decrease I'm not the best at these sorts of computations and it's very possible that I could be off on something, but at this point I am just not seeing what nor where.
It's important to try and remove as many variables as possible, so that means no gear except weapon (preferably entry level) and no stat or crit innates from the power or weapon trees. I think that's how Shiny gets his numbers, and by his calculations the actual damage per second is equivalent to slightly better with the changes. You just have to use the attacks more, because they're quicker. Will be interesting to see how this changes weapon use in rotations.
If you look at crits, you'll have to use the same crit stats and record more samples to account for the higher variance in damage. Since crits aren't even needed to compare base damage, just ignore crits to make your life easier. Right now it looks like either your 2 chars have different crit %s and magnitudes or you don't have enough samples, so the numbers look wonky. To test dmg with different DPS stats, all you have to do is divide average damage by your DPS stat to get the base damage multiplier. So hit a sparring target in damage role, average up all non-crit values, divide that damage by your total DPS stat, and then divide by 0.85 to account for 15% sparring target armor. If you were doing an average of 300 damage on a sparring target, had 320 total DPS, the observed damage multiplier for your move would be (300/320) / 0.85 = 1.1. Try comparing damage multipliers in this way on live/test, then compare your multipliers to the ones I posted. Staff's charge on test should be close to 1.1 or 1.25 (full SC). And as Remander said, yup I was talking about damage in terms of DPS. On test the move deals more damage for its animation time, even if you don't clip it.
Here we go with the numbers (I'll try to "shiny" them up tomorrow )... All tests are done with no Power nor Skill Points assigned and no gear except for the weapon. Weapon used is the 77.9 DPS T6 PVP weapon (already had it set up on both servers), no damage buff on the weapons. 50 base Precision. DPS: Live: 132, 124, 93, 130, 133, 108, 119, 97, 160, 126, 94, 106, 124, 135, 118, 98, 100, 127, 112, 103 Average: 116.95 Test: 91, 81, 80, 69, 85, 88, 85, 62, 85, 71, 83, 74, 75, 67, 79, 70, 63, 85, 66, 71 Average: 76.5 Test results are ~35% lower than that of Live. With the 20% faster speed of Hold over SC, I would think the difference should be ~20%. 15% is a noticeable difference. Tank: Live: 73, 74, 84, 84, 100, 80, 107, 108, 106, 81, 10, 82, 87, 87, 95, 82, 97, 107, 94, 106 Average: 92.05 Test: 52, 53, 50, 50, 55, 64, 73, 66, 60, 61, 66, 67, 55, 52, 53, 54, 69, 64, 61, 71 Average: 59.8 Test results are once again ~35% lower than that of Live. **Of note** I crit'd once in Tank role and once in DPS role on Live, I did not crit at all on Test.
I don't understand how they expect players to complete raids that require you to range, with pretty much every weapon being nerfed to the ground in the range department. I'll love to see mediocre/casual dpsers actually get EO done now with more nerfs to their damage lol..
@BumblingB First off, in regards to Solar Flame you do realize that it is essentially a ranged spin chop right? It hits way harder and faster than most combos, if performed correctly. It either needs a cast bar on solar flame to slow the solar flame animation down a tad and prevent it from easily being clipped, or it needs a slight damage reduction. Also, I never said it was 2x faster, I said solar flame was "almost" 2x faster and was a ranged cone and as you said you are not in danger, so all of these things need to be taken into account when figuring out how to balance this particular move. The Brawling range hold, and the 2H range hold should be faster soon, and thus do lower amounts of damage, so I'm hoping that is addressed correctly.
please do this..give me an example of a balanced weapon. should everything be scaled down to dual pistols...until dual pistols become an exploit? im just trying to figure out what you are using as a measure of balance for range attacks with over 1800 prec? i bet some even have 1900 base prec now. weapon attacks from these ppl are supposed to hurt. then factor in the prec buffs many powers have+t5 prec trinkets...
