Gotham Courthouse Alert too "challenging"

the part right after we defeat the Prosecuter and the other boss, becomes extremely "challenging" (and that's putting it mildly). I tried it with a group of 4, from which i was one of, then, we ended up getting wiped and after the wipe, 2 left but then 2 others joined and we wiped again.

i'm sure most of us have been in similar situations and i'm sure that atleast for some, it can be quitte "annoying" as well. Also... i DO like a challenge but this was just... "ridiculous"

So anyways... am i the only one that is struggling with some of these alerts (including this one)?

Honestly, what makes alerts like this 'challenging' is the fact you are at the mercy of your team mates knowing what to do. If you are the one slated for execution, or who loses powers, or is imprisoned, you can't do much about it. Even if you are trying to explain things, there is no guarantee anyone will be listening. Added to that the fact that 2/3 of the run you are grounded, which is frustrating enough, and 5 or 6 waves of cannon fodder brainiac bots need to be swept aside...it's not a fun run.

You want frustrating, go run 'Avarice Impurity' alert. Besides watching your team repeatedly get killed by the bombs in the hallways....repeatedly....once you are on last boss and get bottled up by Larfleeze (good luck if you are the healer or tank....you WILL get bottled), then can't get released by any of your 3 comrades...it's quite frustrating. I accidentally accepted that one last week or so and have made sure to add it to my 'no fly' list unless I'm running with at least 1 other player I know. Oh fun thing about wiping in there too...because you respawn a floor below, but in the same spot, one of your group might just keep restarting the fight while someone is still headed upstairs, so then you get to try and 3 man the thing you just failed 4 manning for the same reasons. Woo!

It's one of those alerts that requires all four people to understand the mechanics. If you have one person not knowing exactly what they're supposed to do, it can go sideways fast. I remember when it dropped it was an alert I would only do in league runs, pugging it usually ended up in tears.

Even outside of the mechanics, those 2 hit VERY hard for the level you are at. Players that are actually in the level rage will have quite a struggle even if they know the mechanics. It is a poorly balanced mission.

But yes, this is also one of those missions where there are some strict mechanics that the game does not teach you very well. It somehow expects you to figure them out.

This is one of the missions I think of when I complain about the clamp. And frankly, if I am queued up and it pops, I will decline these days. I have been in too many revolving groups where we try to fight those two, we wipe quickly, people drop, rinse/repeat. And despite having finished it multiple times, I am still not 100% sure how to do it.

this particular alert if I remember correctly right after the clamp was severely over tuned. I thought they went back and addressed it because some of us pointed out a few points of issues in that instance.

but I could be wrong I tend to not run it for the reasons others have listed above that if the other 3 players don't know the mechanics it can become tiresome trying to explain it to them

Is it the mechanic of that fight or the lack of tank and healer?

If talking about the lawyers, not the Judge, to me there are 2 things that add to the difficulty that MOST will ignore....and I'm talking about on top of trying to 4 dps it vs having a tank or heal.

1) Additional Jurors - To fight the Bailiff, you have to place 7 human jurors in, but if you only do 7 the other 5 slots will auto fill with brainiacs who will appear during the lawyer fight. If you spend the time to keep placing humans, the more you put in, the less brainiac adds show up...all the way to 0 if you place 12 jurors. It's also a feat, but in random runs I've NEVER seen people place more than 7 humans....you know...cause 'pew pew pew'.

2) The smoke - While the lawyers hit hard enough, in general it's the yellow smoke that will get most dead. Be aware of the smoke and stay out of it and life is a lot easier.

Additionally if you alternate between witnesses and evidence guys (they appear on opposite sides of the steps), generally you'll drop the lawyers alternating too. Personally I find them easier to control and avoid when they are in their shields so I'll step them down alternating so that when one drops the 2nd can be dispatched quickly. Again, this also facilitates a feat....but to me, it's the 'safer' way too....slower and safer...but safer.

Now...to be fair, this is one of the runs I think I've accepted maybe 1 time since clamp as I know it will be a long slow slog even if everything goes well, however the mechanics have not really changed, so what was true before clamp...or at launch...should be true still.

The forum regulars kill me when topics like this arise. I start thinking they're half decent players and they come in here like they can't just 4 dps this hilarious and stupidly easy instance with random bums.

LOL, yeah I've run this several times clamped and was kinda wondering the same thing, but didn't want to say it. oh well guess I just kinda did

Oh i won't lie, i am not the most skilled gamer, i'll admit that but still, some certain group content should'nt really make a difference if just one player kinda that "lacks", falls behind if that player is atleast trying, right?

Proxy and Cyclonic....."We need the clamp so people can learn to play their roles and not just pew pew pew."

Also Proxy and Cyclonic....."Stupid scrubs....can't 4 DPS clamped things! Pew pew pew!!"

And this is why your option on the clamp means so little to me. You are obviously so far removed from average players. You live in your little elite bubble so you can't even comprehend how the unwashed masses who don't live and breathe this game experience things. You're like a rich person complaining about why all of those poors are whining about food prices.

Get this through your head...not everyone has everything maxxed out and is playing meta. MOST people who game do not spend all of their time making sure that the way they are playing is perfect. This goes for every game that has ever existed. Most people that played Super Mario bros didn't know about the infinite lives exploit or which warps to take to get to the end. They just played the game the way it showed them. DCUO is no different. The game does not explain stats and metas and mechanics, so most players take it as it comes. Which is to say, when they hit a fight like this they bounce off and either avoid it or assume that they game sucks and leave.

This particular mission is especially bad because new players are given a quest to complete it, yet its difficulty is well outside of the others in that tier and is a fairly early quest, so it may cause people to leave the game.

Ideally I agree with you. Missions that require everyone to work perfectly or everyone fails are not great in F2P games. Especially console games where most players don't seem to use headsets or action heavy games where chat can be difficult. It can be hard to communicate in this game, and that doesn't even take into account language barriers. And since the game doesn't explain anything some players may have no idea what they are doing wrong. So one person out of the loop, or having lag or whatever can cause wipe after wipe.

This mission is far from the only one with a mechanic like that. I always come back to one of the Spindthrift station missions. Black Manta lays down a big ring of mines. Everyone has to deactivate a mine of you get a wipe. The mine timers are very short so if you aren't near one, even if you DO know what to do, you may not get to them quick enough. With 8 players, there generally are a few that don't do it and you get wipe after wipe. I have only made it through that mission 1 time in several years of play.

I always wished we could get a hold of Black Manta's mines...could have the Perpetua fight so much easier

Sounds like that alert was missing a healer and a tank. That's one of the issues with DCUO there's too many DPS players. The clamp exposes them instead of adapting and learning. I don't know how many years ago it was but ever since I switched to tanking I haven't had a problem that I alone couldn't fail at but if everyone is a DPS more than likely something going to go wrong.

The game also in NO way teaches anyone to play those other roles. And those roles solo very slowly. Since the game requires investment in Artifacts to play roles properly, you end up needing to get both DPS and role artifacts. So i think most people stick with the one that lets them do their dailies and such at least until they have the DPS 'maxxed'. I have a healer in the ~190s...I hate playing them because I am group dependent to level and I never know for sure if I am doing my job right. I mean, no one dies, but maybe they wouldn't have died anyway and if I was DPS we could have gone faster.

Also, every MMO I have ever played has struggled to get people to play other roles. They have more responsibility and you often don't feel as useful since you don't get to see the big number that show how useful you were. FF for example give bonus XP to classes that the game is short on...and they are still usually short on either tanks or healers.

I have my setting to only let me in alerts that have all 4 roles. And I still get into groups where people signed up for a role but won't switch to it even after we wipe because we are lacking them.

No word as to why the tutorial was scrapped in the beginning. I do agree that's a problem DCUO has. But we can't put all the blame on DCUO. No one taught me how to play a secondary role. I learned by being in support role as soon as I reached level 10. I did research online and read guides on here. Players need to take accountability of their own actions and stop blaming stat clamp or any other thing except their own inability. You don't need artifacts to do your support role. This game has been out before artifacts came out. People where still healing and tanking way before artifacts so that statement of yours isn't true.

One thing to keep mind if you plan to be a healer is that you can't heal stupid. It's just is what it is. I find tanking easier than a healer job only because stupidness from players will be seen as you being a bad healer. However, if you're a tank like me, you only need to worry about keeping the aggro away from the group. I honestly don't need a healer to keep me alive as there's many ways to do that such as cola, supply drop, sidekicks etc...

Also what is "max" to you? Mind you I only have 250 skill points with no elite tank gear, I'm cr 377, I don't have anything maxed out. Players need to stop thinking gear will fix their issue. Get better first then worry about maxing out your gear and arts....

I only have 120 eog art, 120 Quislet and a 19 grim and that's on my rage tank.

I play ESO and I admit I only play DPS role but mostly because I just solo play. Recently however the game has been made to be played in hybrid role. Oddly enough when I do join a dungeon I always see the healer being the first to attack and fighting like they are a DPS. I find it annoying but so what I just continue because I'm not worried about them.

So, here is the issue with that...most gamers, the world over, not just MMOs or even video games do not take it seriously enough to want to do research or teach themselves. Because most people play games for fun, not as a full blown hobby or second job. The play a game of poker once a week, or do a crossword on the weekend, or play DCUO when their spouse is cooking dinner.

You can't complain that not enough people play tanks and healers and then tell them they have to put a bunch of work in that they don't want to do. This is not a job. You basically proved WHY no one plays them. It is because you have to teach yourself. And people don't want to do that. It is extra work and responsibility and DCUO give no incentives for doing it. And if you do it poorly, boy will you hear about it. So I guess you do understand why there are fewer of them.

As for 'needing' artifacts, you may be right. But a healer with healing artifacts is going to be drastically different than one that doesn't have any. And I can already hear some of the people from these board screeching about players that aren't specced right. If we suddenly had a rash of Tanks, Healers and Trollers with DPS only gear there would be plenty of complaining.

The tutorial on the ship was scrapped because people would get stuck on it. While we do need a tutorial, I'm not sure we needed it before you could play the game. Now....I don't see how anyone would get stuck on it (seriously....my 6 year olds did it in the original form), but I can see that IF you got stuck on it, it would be extremely easy to just say 'screw it' and delete the free game you just downloaded. I get the decision to make sure people can get in and get hooked a bit....however we DO need some tutorial at SOME point for the more advanced duties in game. Add to the fact that the 1-30 content was nerfed so hard in later versions that you almost literally can push ANY buttons and get through to 30....there isn't much NEED for a tutorial till later.

I honestly think that if you want to run things more smoothly... good communications is essential.
And by "good communications" i am referring to voice chat as it works much faster. Well, usually anyways.
But not everyone has a headset or headphone and mic available.