Dear Developers: Concerns Regarding Learning/Playing Roles and The Community

DCUO was the first and only MMO I’ve played. I was never a fan of online gaming, but on a whim I tried DCUO about two years ago. I played the game for two months, had an ok time, and then stopped playing for about 9 months. When I started playing again, I discovered leagues, and got connected to great people who taught me how to play the game properly and developed relationships with the DCUO community.

Since that time I watched the game grow and implement changes to make the game more accessible to casual players. My concern is that many of the changes geared to make the game more accessible are also making game less personal and fun. In addition to that, the changes are also more harmful to new/casual players, as it puts them in a position where they achieve a high CR quickly, but do not have the skills and understanding of the roles and gameplay to meet the expectations of their newfound high CR.

After maximizing my Troll/DPS character I decided I wanted to create a tank, as that is a role I often enjoy playing. Having played Ice and Rage, I decided to try Earth. As I was leveling up my Earth character to Level 30 I played as DPS. I didn’t struggle at all to complete any missions. I received all the boss HardKnock feats with no difficulty. The only purpose I had for grouping with others was just to get tasks done faster so I could level up quicker. Outside of that, there was no need to work with or communicate with anyone.

Upon reaching level 30 I began queing for content and acquiring Tank Gear. In virtually all my que’s I was paired with another player who was a DPS with 20+ CR than I had. Because of that the DPS(s) was able to beat the NPCs quickly, without taking significant damage, thus negating the need for a Tank, Controller, or Healer.
My Earth character, at the time I wrote this, has 110CR, 52SP, full Tank Gear, and I have not been able to tank any content on the game thus far. Being an experienced player I have a Tank loadout and understand the role but I have no practice in using the loadout and learning the mechanics. The first opportunity that I will get to tank will be when I run the New Genesis Now Raid which still requires a tank.

If I were a new player, I would be totally lost. I would fail miserably at tanking NGN incurring a lot ugliness from my raid groups would expect a 110CR player to, at the very least, know the basics of tanking. I would then develop a reputation of not knowing my role, and have very difficult finding a group in LFG, or constantly being kicked from groups that I would que up with.

The other side of the equation is the level of damage I am able to do with Earth. As an Earth DPS I have been able to routinely keep pace and in many cases do more damage than players with higher CRs than I do.
I realized how troubling this was when I ran the same duo, Supply Lines, with two different characters, one being my Mental DPS with 140CR and 108SP, and the other being my Earth Character with 102CR and 44SP. In both instances I ran the duo without a partner from beginning to end. I finished both runs in less than 6 minutes with the Earth taking the longer of the two, but neither being difficult. It made sense for my Mental DPS to do that, my Earth DPS should not have been able to complete that duo alone, let alone in fewer than 6 minutes.
To illustrate this point further, I did another test, with my Mental DPS. I used the teleporter in the Watchtower to walk into the T2 Raid, Brainiac Sub-Construct, alone. I finished the Raid in fewer than 30 minutes and that included waiting for the 3 Eradicators to form to get the feat for beating them and Brainiac. If I didn’t already have it, I would have also gotten the speed feat on that solo run.

I could go and on giving more examples. With the DPS players being over powered for a majority of the content, many players don’t have the opportunity play and learn support roles. They also do not have to communicate with each other during content, so there is no rapport being built or a sense of community. I’ve completed countless content without having to say or type another word to anyone.

At present time, the only content that requires a Tank role are the T7 and upper T6 Raids. All other content is mostly being played without a Tank. Desecrated Cathedral is the only alert that requires a Healer; a Controller is optional.

Only the T7 and upper T6 Raids require communication between the players to complete. We now have an environment where players are encouraged and able to complete over 90% of the content without learning to play any support roles and/or communicating with other players.

While the game is certainly more accessible to casual players, allowing them to get to higher content quickly, the tradeoff has been the necessity for player interaction and learning/practicing support roles. The thing that took me from a casual player to a Legendary member for over two years was the relationships I built with people playing the game. Those countless hours of building a character and learning a new role/power led to countless hours of talking with other people around the world about the game and about life.
The changes over the past year have moved players away from making those connections; and they are making this Legendary member move away from DCUO.

I think there are a number of different ways this issue could be addressed and offer two examples. The matching system could be changed to give priority to players with content relevant CRs. If the content’s recommended CR is 43 then players 43CR to 64CR would be matched first before matching with players way above 64CR.

Another alternative would be to clamp higher CR players to the highest CR of the relevant content. For example, a 141CR DPS runs Oan Sciencells and is capped at 64CR for the alert. This would allow the player to still be highly powered and effective in the alert, the other players the opportunity play and practice their roles, and since the DPS is 64CR, the dps would get marks for the relevant content. If you don’t want to give marks, you could offer other rare drops to incentivize the higher CR players to play the lower content.

I’m sure there are other creative ways to balance the situation of high CR plays still remaining strong in lower content, while allowing New/Casual and experienced players with new power sets/roles opportunities to learn and practice those roles before they are thrust into T6/T7 content.


I hope to see the emphasis shift back to people working in teams and playing roles than the current direction of one man armies. If the current direction continues you will indeed lose at least one customer.

Back when battle for earth hit they ended walk ins to fix this type of end game player. Then the leveling was redone and yup u see what we got. This then leads to end game easier content and nerfs when people struggle. Turns off vets who done played extensively during better days and tons are unhappy. Tons of older players who stuck it out. Good insightful post bud and I support stat clamping

I strongly agree. I only started playing this game about three months ago. I also didn't have much MMO background, and I was excited to learn the support roles. I still haven't been able to successfully do so, for the exact reasons you outline. Most of the time I queue up, it's with some high-CR person who either wipes everything too fast to allow me to learn anything, or just pisses off looking for collectibles, leaving everybody else to die with one less person than they should have. That plus the toxic attitude some high-CR people give to people who don't automagically know how to play as well as them makes this a frustrating experience sometimes.

I'm going to stick with it because I'm a huge comic fan and found a good and supportive league, but I strongly agree that these are issues that need addressing.

I've stuck it up for 4 years. Dc is my favorite mmo. I've tried them all. I just couldn't get into any like dc

It's a complicated thing. Stat clamping would help alot but it also needs to be fair to higher crs. Ff a realm reborn has stat clamping but they reward players for it. So maybe reward the community for stat clamping

I have mentioned this problem in numerous threads and posts. The need for stat clamping in the lower tiers has never been more clear. It's not fair to the newer player base in the long run to just get carried through everything, and when the time comes I'm not sure if they even know where the block button is lol.

Your right OP, the content when leveling up is way too easy, then throw in a 141cr dps in the mix and well.... why bother. Teleporters for things like area 51, Oolong Island, Hive Moon Base, well pretty much anything that doesn't have a teleporter should get installed, via a base mod or something.

I think we are right now at the very “crisis” point, since you see many players with tanking powers yet getting a tank is a pain, let alone a good tank.

The most “balanced” games I’ve played, always keep a certain mission-related activity exclusive to a certain class and they mix them to ensure no class is shrugged (i.e: the mission has traps only the rogue can disable, but also undead that only the healer can kill, while a monster that can only be contained by having a tank, etc.)

However, I do think the developers have already thought about this, since we have started to see more and more mechanics oriented missions, and just last update trollers got AM which makes them a bit more useful than just being the battery that stuns stuff for a brief moment sometimes, so I believe it’s just a matter of time until supports are given a bit more of terrain and players can go back to being an actual role.

As you said, there’s not much need for knowing the role before T6-7, but considering that was endgame at a point, and that today’s endgame will soon be old content, you could say that, in a way, T6-7 is the phase where the player will have to learn how to use their role properly, and soon those tiers will look like early tiers, so I think it will feel more natural.

Added to that, it was mentioned at some point after the tutorial nerf, that they were working in something to compensate for the things removed from the brainiac ship, so imo, we are at a point where the game is changing and I guess we just need to be patient and see where it will take us.

It also doesn't help that all the power revamps and updates were directed at the damage portion of the game. With everything hitting for 20k plus, the support roles could definitely use some looking into.

I would do this, and then take it a step further and say that excessive CRs could *only* access the instance through these teleporters. The queue would only be for relevant CR players. Of course, that would slow the queue down significantly so maybe clamping is the better option.

Well, I would definitely expect everyone that queued for an instance or operation to be clamped, but I'm not really against walk-ins. If a friend wanted to walk in his new Atomic toon for instance, I'd be fine with that since he/she already knows the content.

Looks at seasonal and I say....hell no!


IA ARMY

Again this clamping discussion!
And I say: No! No! No!
It's an absurd!
Unless all the contents start to give marks! Ai any content can have the same cr I do not care, otherwise not!

Yes.

Let me just point out that 110 combat rating with 52 skill points shows part of why you have had no reason to tank yet. It sounds like you have only run most content a handful of times. When I was first refining my tanking, I ran into the same thing as you when I went back to lower content, and the solution was to run the same content multiple times a week. I set goals to finish out certain styles within a tier, thus guaranteeing that at least a few times, I would join a group of players wearing the appropriate tier gear who would need me to tank and help them survive.

I like this, that way would improve the quality of players since queuing would mean you have to actually play each time, instead of just having people carry you and then going back to facerol content you skipped!! If you want to faceroll stuff, you could always walk-in...i can vote for this ^^
Especially since we've heard lots of complaints from new people about end game players going into lower alerts and leaving them behind just to flex virtual biceps

Yup!
If you go on to win mark I see no problem! In fact it is fair.
Now stay like this and still give us Clamping?
Ai is ask to stop playing!
One idea would be to create portals to all missions.
The portals missions would continue as normal.
But who was the line there would have the option cr modified gain marks!
The only way to have this Clamping and be fair is if we win marks for it. Otherwise it is totally unfair!

So you want to stat clamp the game, so YOUR experience is better. Doesn't even bother you one bit, that your idea might be hurting someone else's experience. Of course it wouldn't bother you, because if this happens you will be happy and that is all that matters, ME.

Here are some alternatives to learn your role and content that doesn't involve stat clamping or dev involvement to implement. It just requires you to be a little resourceful, and actually make an effort.

1 LFG ( Looking for a group) Type looking for ppl in the cr range of for whatever you want to run. Profit

2 General Chat. Same as above

3 Grab a friend or two and walk -in to alerts and practice.

4 Grab a friend and que for a duo and you guessed it practice.

5 You can practice against 11 open world bounties who all have different attacks up until cr of 50 -60. Depending on skill the bounties get easier the higher you progress. ( Note bounties are useless for healer characters unless you have a friend with you to practice healing on)

6 If you have battle for earth episode or are legendary, you can practice against 3 different sub-avatars who have different attack patterns.

There are options to learn your role, it's not an ideal situation, but neither is stat clamping.

Sorry dude, but walk-ins were ended waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after Battle for Earth. Remember, one of the issues with walk-ins were the Gotham Wastelands And they were removed because some elitist players made a lot of noise on the forums primarily.

Bottom line: if you don't want to run with unskilled players, don't use the queue. I'm trying for years now to convince the devs of giving us a better tool to build groups than LFG, but until then, LFG is there. The apps let you spy on every player that applies for a spot on your group. Elitists can stay among themselves if they want. Only thing is: they have to "work" for that. But obviously the elitists of DCUO are so lazy, they want to force the other players to "work" so they don't have too Hence threads like these keep popping up.

Ok, for starters, there was nothing wrong with the seasonal in the first place. If the people in the room didn't know about the crystals and insisted on pew pewing, then fine, I carried the crystals. Guess what, 100% success rate. Secondly, if you still wanted to steam roll your content then you could go ahead and walk in, or you could queue up, be clamped, and actually show some newbies the proper way to run stuff.

Asking a plaayer at end game to understand what pot is means someone is elitist? U derstanding the very basics of ones power and role is elitist?

Take this horsey puckey to some one else. If u log into a team based role filled game with machanics dont cry if u if u need to use team work, roles and obey machanics.

Horrible players are horrible but not to be confused with under developed. Either has no place in end game. Could careless who disagrees because the game has eroded to a point of unpleasantry since people began cheating the leveling and speed leveling became a thing. T4 was the end of walk ins if u want to be more accurate but I used one of the two dlcs at that time as a reference.

U realy need to know the people u try to Insult with "elitist" becasue man this whinny comments sound awful. U dont run nascar if u dont know how to draft or ever drove a stock car. U dont play Nfl qb if u cant read defenses kr throw a football over 10 yards. U can want to and you can enjoy said sports but to cry or insult those who can is infantile and horrendous behavior. Fyi just like dcuo all examples are games.

I realy dont care if people are getting wrecked be ause ive seen what real content builds. Quality players and a fun game. We can debate fun is reletive but its rendered moot. Ur opinion nor mine matter simply the population and its at low concerning numbers. Awful players and end game fluff coupled with an over whelming majority of content facerollable is why I went from years of multi hours and endless spending to a few hours per week. Reason plenty left.

Again it really dont matter about ur opinion nor mine the population speaks volums. If easy mode and nerf any machanic I stead of asking people to learn basics is so popular where is the majority of the vets and the growing number of newbies? The population would be retaining plenty it had for 2 years and growing yet its losing people and not drawing in enough to fill the servers. Servers once upon a time packed.

Its so bad we are willing to give up our stats our efforts and time invested simply to improve things. I still am confused how some feel practice and learning = bad or expecting someone to meet requirements vs gifting everything = bad.

U dont wanna learn a role or machanics well a mmo with roles probably aint ur cup of tea.